How Light Is Rules Light?

Tristram Evans · March 15, 2017, 05:06:04 PM

Quote from: Matt;951712What do you use in place of dice and players?

hands and a penis?

Gronan of Simmerya · March 15, 2017, 05:38:32 PM

Quote from: Matt;951712What do you use in place of dice and players?

Since the OP question was about rules, how is this relevant?

noman · March 15, 2017, 05:58:31 PM

@ the OP,

I consider GenreDiversion 3E to be the crunchy end of rules-light. If I were to try to model a rules-light system, I'd start there. Crunchier than Risus, but a little lighter than D6.

AsenRG · March 15, 2017, 06:12:15 PM

Quote from: Charon's Little Helper;951665I think of it as a spectrum - though where exactly a given game is on it is very subjective, as is what qualifies as 'light'.

Wushu................d20................GURPS.

Pretty much every game is somewhere in there - but you probably won't get much agreement on exactly where - and I'm sure that some will bring up games beyond Wushu & GURPS - though I can't think there are many playable games which are crunchier than GURPS. (And by d20 I mean base d20 - all of the spells & specials put 3.x/Pathfinder on the crunchier side of the spectrum.)

Well, there's at least one game crunchier than GURPS that's still playable, they say. I mean 3.x/PF with all the spells and specials, of course:)!

On topic, there's more of a broad agreement which games are which, but there are enough edge cases to muddy the waters;).

Charon's Little Helper · March 15, 2017, 06:42:18 PM

Quote from: AsenRG;951737Well, there's at least one game crunchier than GURPS that's still playable, they say. I mean 3.x/PF with all the spells and specials, of course:)!

Maybe if you want to learn all of them - but unlike GURPS it's an exception based system, so you only need to learn a fraction of the content to play competantly. (I don't know if anyone knows EVERY option by heart.)

Simlasa · March 15, 2017, 07:03:42 PM

GURPS is a toolkit... its crunch at the table can be dialed up and down quite a bit. I've never played in a game of it that came anywhere near its reputation for complexity... but Pathfinder, sheesh! Our GM seemed to need a computer to assist in running that.

Ashakyre · March 15, 2017, 07:25:28 PM

What do people mean by an exception based system?

Tristram Evans · March 15, 2017, 07:32:13 PM

Quote from: Ashakyre;951760What do people mean by an exception based system?

An exception based system is one in which each rule exists largely independently of the others, is constructed on its own from the ground up. D&D for example, has different systems for combat, for thieving skills, for saving throws, for proficiencies, etc. This is opposed to a system like, say, D6, where there is one overall method of resolution, and each rule in the game is a variation or provides modifiers to that.

Charon's Little Helper · March 15, 2017, 07:52:00 PM

Quote from: Tristram Evans;951761An exception based system is one in which each rule exists largely independently of the others, is constructed on its own from the ground up. D&D for example, has different systems for combat, for thieving skills, for saving throws, for proficiencies, etc. This is opposed to a system like, say, D6, where there is one overall method of resolution, and each rule in the game is a variation or provides modifiers to that.

See - I thought that those were sub-systems and that being an exception based system was because the base rules were relatively simple, but that there were lots of feats/spells/classes which let you break those base rules - leading to the specific trumping the general etc.

Tristram Evans · March 15, 2017, 07:55:21 PM

Quote from: Charon's Little Helper;951771See - I thought that those were sub-systems and that being an exception based system was because the base rules were relatively simple, but that there were lots of feats/spells/classes which let you break those base rules - leading to the specific trumping the general etc.

I suppose that may be another way of looking at it. I may even be wrong in my definition.

Ashakyre · March 15, 2017, 08:01:55 PM

Thank you. So exception based systems by definition tend to be rules heavier than non-exception systems. So what's a good example of an exception based system on the lighter side?

Psikerlord · March 15, 2017, 08:11:05 PM

Quote from: Charon's Little Helper;951665I think of it as a spectrum - though where exactly a given game is on it is very subjective, as is what qualifies as 'light'.

Wushu................d20................GURPS.

Pretty much every game is somewhere in there - but you probably won't get much agreement on exactly where - and I'm sure that some will bring up games beyond Wushu & GURPS - though I can't think there are many playable games which are crunchier than GURPS. (And by d20 I mean base d20 - all of the spells & specials put 3.x/Pathfinder on the crunchier side of the spectrum.)

This is also how I think of it. I consider Low Fantasy Gaming rpg relatively rules lite. Stuff like Black Hack, Swords & Wizardry light, I consider minimalist/extremely light.

DavetheLost · March 15, 2017, 08:34:22 PM

OneDice from Cakebread and Walton is extremly rules light. Three attributes, roll 1d6+Attribute+skill vs Target Number. That in a nutshell is it.

To see rules light and rules heavier itterations of the same thing look at Pirates & Dragons or Abney Parks Airship Pirates, both available in OneDice and non-OneDice versions. Although I would rate the more complex versions as still being only medium crunch.

If you can play the game from a one sided reference sheet or less, just the character sheet being ideal, then it is rules light.

Charon's Little Helper · March 15, 2017, 08:50:51 PM

Quote from: Ashakyre;951776Thank you. So exception based systems by definition tend to be rules heavier than non-exception systems.

Not inherently - but many crunchier systems (besides GURPS) tend to be exception based because you don't need to know all of the rules to sit down and start playing - making them more newbie friendly.

Probably the most common are games with intricate spell systems. If you want to play a martial you don't need to know how they work at all, and even if you are a spell-caster, you really only need to understand the relatively few spells that you yourself are casting - which often 'break' the general rules of the game. Greater system mastery can help a spell-caster pick the best spells for any given situation, or even help a martial know what they might need to defend against, but such knowledge isn't required for play.

Ras Algethi · March 15, 2017, 11:20:57 PM

Quote from: CRKrueger;951670Yeah, if Data, Spock or Neuromancer is your GM.

LOL. :eek: