That last point is very true, but is 5e going to change the current dynamics of that situation (i.e. probably 5 games available of anything other than the preferred retro-clone)?

How is the OSR going to fare with D&D coming?

Just fine-and-dandy. Thanks for asking.

Quote from: Akrasia;753266Um, maybe some people simply will continue to prefer 0e D&D, Basic/Expert D&D, 1e AD&D, etc., over D&D 5e?

And some people might find themselves liking both OOP A/D&D and 5e.

Yeah, that's not like you have to play one single version, or have to like just material for one game. If 5e lives up to its nigh backwards compatibility promise, then it's win-win for old schoolers too.

People forget that the OSR has been going on long enough for the various publishers to have established their own reputation. Many OSR publishers are for all intent and purposes are in the same business situation as any other third tier publisher of RPGs.

The main question will be how successfully WoC manages to get all the talent in the smaller companies to shift focus toward making products for 5e.

The motivation for this switch will be great simply because of the large customer base they will have right out of the blocks. Some people making OSR products will continue to do so out of devotion to their preferred platform, but I'll bet many will want to participate in the larger market, particularly if they can do it without compromising their basic 'brand'. I.e., if 5e really is compatible with a style of play resembling pre-3e games, it won't be much of a stretch to turn your attention to it.

Companies like Troll Lord games, etc., may well ask whether they would rather be a sort of modern Judge's Guild, participating directly in the D&D marketplace, or more like a FGU, focusing on their own line of games. This doesn't have to be a black-and-white choice: a company can do some of both. But there are only so many people writing print-worthy adventures and other products, and I'll bet a significant fraction of them will want to support, directly or indirectly, the 5e market.

Isn't 5E just an OSR product with better support?   If it succeeds, I believe the OSR will have it's first legitimate blockbuster.

Quote from: Larsdangly;753444Companies like Troll Lord games, etc., may well ask whether they would rather be a sort of modern Judge's Guild, participating directly in the D&D marketplace, or more like a FGU, focusing on their own line of games. This doesn't have to be a black-and-white choice: a company can do some of both. But there are only so many people writing print-worthy adventures and other products, and I'll bet a significant fraction of them will want to support, directly or indirectly, the 5e market.

I can only speak for myself, but yes I would seriously consider supporting 5e IF it supported the same style I been using and of course if it had a usable third party license.

Majestic Wilderlands for 5e, instead of wrapping itself around Swords & Wizardry it would wrap itself around the Basic D&D rules.

Scourge of the Demon Wolf, would use the above along with 5e stats.

Blackmarsh, 5e has the least impact on this type of product considering I use minimal stats at best. What matters more is whether the buyer can easily look up the things I include.

Quote from: Gunslinger;753450Isn't 5E just an OSR product with better support?   If it succeeds, I believe the OSR will have it's first legitimate blockbuster.

That will depend on the adventures more than the rules. If they don't make it easy for third party to support it then the adventures and organized play will set the "tone" of 5e.

If they do make it easy for third party support then it will be a big tent with a variety of styles to choose from.

Unless 5E has integrated domain-level play options in the core-book, and other assorted cool bits (rules about creating monsters, turning into undead, building golems etc), I can hardly see it replacing ACKS for me.

The other two "retro-clones" I like are Mongoose Traveller - essentially an official retro-clone of Classic Traveller - and Stars Without Number, an OD&D/Classic Traveller hybrid neo-clone. I can hardly see 5E replacing either.

That said, I think that 5E has a good chance of replacing 3.5E for my group.

Having seen nothing even resembling third party support in any of the pre-release buzz, I have to ask...

What makes you think there's going to be anything like the OGL?

At a minimum wouldn't we have seen OGL notices on preview products?   Or logos on the trade dress?   Something?

Because if there's not, the OSR is losing a lot of market share to a powerful competitor without being able to tag along.  So that'd be bad.

Quote from: Warthur;753368Ultimately, if the new Basic plays like TSR-era D&D, then tinkering with OD&D/BX/BECMI/RC/AD&D 1 and 2 becomes more a matter of exploring the game's history rather than keeping a particular play style alive - because that play style will be alive and well within the Basic 5E community.

It comes down to how many people are active in the OSR because they want a system and adventures that support old-school style D&D. Because yeah, it's looking like a lot of those folks (myself included) will find what they need with 5E. Especially if WotC (or licensed partners) can turn out some half-way decent adventures.

However, I've always doubted how much the OSR is an active play movement. It seems more of a design club along the lines of the Forge. Like-minded people exploring certain game sensibilities, publishing vanity press RPGs, and downloading and talking about them among themselves. There has to be tremendous overlap between owners of Swords & Wizardry, Labyrinth Lord, ACKS, and Dungeon Crawl Classics. I also suspect most copies of those games are played once or twice, or not played as all - which is true of all indie RPGs.

Then then there's the publishers who are trying to actually run a business. If  WotC welcomes third-party support, it's hard to imagine old-school publishers eschewing the far larger market of 5E to publish an adventure that sells 600 copies. If Frog God and Goodman Games could hold their noses to publish adventures for 3E and Pathfinder, I can't see why they wouldn't want to publish for a game far closer to the sensibilities of their customers (and owners).

So the OSR will survive as a movement of like-minded enthusiasts. But I suspect we've seen the high-water mark commercially.

They'll be fine in fact the smart ones will find a way to make money off the whole deal if 5e is any good at all.

Quote from: golan2072;753474Unless 5E has integrated domain-level play options in the core-book, and other assorted cool bits (rules about creating monsters, turning into undead, building golems etc), I can hardly see it replacing ACKS for me.

I can't see 5e Basic replacing anything for me either. It's certainly not going to play like DCC and it's modules aren't going to be like the LotFP stuff.
I like the relatively 'punk' attitude of the OSR contingent.
To me D&D Basic will be just another OSR product, which I'll take a look at and mine for ideas. The Brand Name and the corporate bullshit attached have no draw for me... but a cheap/free Basic set is low-commitment enough for me to take a look.

Quote from: Haffrung;753479There has to be tremendous overlap between owners of Swords & Wizardry, Labyrinth Lord, ACKS, and Dungeon Crawl Classics. I also suspect most copies of those games are played once or twice, or not played as all - which is true of all indie RPGs.

S&W and LL, so far as I can tell, get a reasonable amount of play. But sometimes they're called OD&D and B/X.

ACKS/DCC I suspect don't get as much play as self-contained games in themselves so much as they get raided for ideas to incorporate into existing campaigns with D&Dish rules sets.

QuoteSo the OSR will survive as a movement of like-minded enthusiasts. But I suspect we've seen the high-water mark commercially.

I agree. To run with the Forge analogy, we'll still see retro-clones bubbling up from time to time whenever someone decides they have found a superior way to replicate OD&D (or whatever), just like there's still a steady trickle of storygames being published. But the OSR's had its moment of maximum prominence, just as the Forge did back in the 3E days.

Allow me to officially assure the reading public that I will continue to produce whatever madness my fevered brain constructs regardless of whatever the hell happens to come out of Redmond this month, just as I always have.

Frankly, I consider it a personal failing that Arcana Rising was as market friendly as it was.

5th Edition really has no more relevance to my continued output than any other game.

At the moment, I'm actually more threatened by the new ICONS and Valiant Universe ...