Quote from: Cathode Ray on December 31, 2023, 11:15:00 AM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on December 30, 2023, 06:50:00 PM
"AI" can't create, can't write, can't innovate, because it isn't "AI", it's a glorified bot.

My wife posted this quote on her web site last week:

Notice the scare quotes? There's not a single AI right now, could there be one in the future? Maybe.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on December 31, 2023, 11:36:42 AM

Quote from: Cathode Ray on December 31, 2023, 11:15:00 AM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on December 30, 2023, 06:50:00 PM
"AI" can't create, can't write, can't innovate, because it isn't "AI", it's a glorified bot.

My wife posted this quote on her web site last week:

Notice the scare quotes? There's not a single AI right now, could there be one in the future? Maybe.

What they currently call AI is just applied statistics. Nothing more. Nothing less.

Quote from: yosemitemike on December 31, 2023, 04:26:43 AM
Floating islands is something of a cliche in My Setting Is Not D&D settings.

Ah, got it.  I think what makes that different enough to be okay is the shifting bridges part.  Assuming no practical or safe flight, the bridges would lock and unlock various realms and that might create some interesting constraints like, "You have 3 days to complete the mission before the bridge collapses and you'll have to find another route home."  We don't see a lot of that kind of time pressure in overland travel.  I'm also a sucker of orrery-like structures that are wheels within wheels.

Machines are not a threat to humans producing genuinely creative content. They will obsolete shovelware writers that produce  little of any value. There be less humans industry because they are no longer needed to produce unplayable trash for virtue signalers buy and display. Good riddance. Having more crappy writers does not due the hobby any favors, and having the bottom fall out from it will not effect the low volume of high quality content.

Quote from: Cathode Ray on December 28, 2023, 07:33:14 PMBut what about an indy designer, a one-man DIY show, who would like quality art, but never would even have the funds to hire a professional artist in the first place, because the investment-to-profit ratio would make it impractical to even have paid art?

This person now has a tool to add aesthetics to a game that never could have in the past.  It's not a threat to visual artists, and it gives the little guy a step up.

So its ok to steal someone elses stuff if you cant afford it?

This "tool" is scraping art from real artists and cobbling it together. Its a threat to artists and writers.

Whats going to happen is that the people using these things are going to really heavily push it and push hard how its "not harming anyone."

Alot of people will be out of jobs in an already troubled venue.

We may start to see an upswing in artists and writers moving to paywall sites like Patreon to safeguard their art or writing and a downswing in the use of open galleries as they are now just farming plots for these programs to scrape.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on December 31, 2023, 11:36:42 AM

Quote from: Cathode Ray on December 31, 2023, 11:15:00 AM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on December 30, 2023, 06:50:00 PM
"AI" can't create, can't write, can't innovate, because it isn't "AI", it's a glorified bot.

My wife posted this quote on her web site last week:

Notice the scare quotes? There's not a single AI right now, could there be one in the future? Maybe.

Thats because the "AI" is not AI. Its a glorified ELIZA program.

Quote from: Omega on January 03, 2024, 03:54:28 AM

Quote from: Cathode Ray on December 28, 2023, 07:33:14 PMBut what about an indy designer, a one-man DIY show, who would like quality art, but never would even have the funds to hire a professional artist in the first place, because the investment-to-profit ratio would make it impractical to even have paid art?

This person now has a tool to add aesthetics to a game that never could have in the past.  It's not a threat to visual artists, and it gives the little guy a step up.

So its ok to steal someone elses stuff if you cant afford it?

This "tool" is scraping art from real artists and cobbling it together. Its a threat to artists and writers.

Humans have been copying each other's art since forever.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greg_Land

I appreciate that AI can do it faster and pump out a ton of stuff  compared to just a handful of artists. But also, we're looking at a technology shift like digital music. Artists are going to have to adapt, because the genie is already out of the bottle, and there are developers working on the common limitations and issues with AI art and writing.
I can't see a pleasant solution that will make everyone happy.

Quote from: Omega on January 03, 2024, 03:54:28 AM
This "tool" is scraping art from real artists and cobbling it together. Its a threat to artists and writers.

The tool is a statistical model, a set of rules, derived from previous artwork.  It is not the art itself.  There is not seven billion pieces of art crammed inside of it that the program copies.  Try making the Mona Lisa from a prompt.  You will get a thousand images that look kind of like the Mona Lisa but not one of them will be the Mona Lisa.  That's because it is a set of rules applied to random noise.  It knows about the Mona Lisa but it does not have a copy of the Mona Lisa.

Scraping and cobbling tells me you don't understand the actual technology, just how it makes you feel.  There are plenty of papers/articles out there on AI art, research is the topic, watch a couple of vids.  I totally expect your opinion will not change, that's okay.  But, you'll be aware that that ethical issues happen before and after the process, not during the process itself.

Having said that, the threat to artists is indeed very real, but they are not a protected class of worker (yet.)  That competition pressure will also come from every kid that is in art school, every hobbyist that gives their artwork away, and every artist that adopts the new tools.  For example, Adobe Firefly is trained on Adobe owned images.  Totally legit, nothing 'stolen'.  Yes, I said the quiet part out loud.  Legit artists using procedural/smart tools have been doing it for years and their tools are only getting more powerful/smarter.  The field is evolving, adapt or die.  You can't turtle on this one and not expect the next generation of artists to walk right on past the hold outs.

PS.  Yes, I more or less left writers and AI text generation out of my reply.  That's because I know a bit about LLMs and text generation, but I have not researched it like I have for AI art.

[edit for typos]

For my part, I'm not particularly worried. Of course, maybe certain game designers may need to be worried. Namely, the largely mediocre ones.

Asking it (chatgpt) to make usable lua scripts for various games or applications is hit or miss, but it can get you in the ballpark where you just have to alter a few lines or some certain settings within the game to get it working right. I think it would fail hard at doing more than copying game mechanics, but can be useful for filling pages with lore, all of which in my experience you WILL have to edit and rearrange because robots are stupid.

I used to get so mad at youngins' insisting machines were going to replace us any day now, because i worked with robots in fabrication and know better. I spent years working with them and it's hard to articulate just how not smart, not aware, and downright dangerous they can be as a result of that lack of awareness and reasoning. The bot makes the decision to cycle the process based on whether or not it feels an outgoing piece on the landing tray for example, but debris, leaves, paper, a piece of pallet or general crud can foul that contact based weight sensor/light curtain combo, and the bot will think the tray is empty and proceed to shove another piece up the first ones ass, line up a cutting head, and spin that bitch at 9 million rpms shredding parts cutter head and all while making a noise that sounds like all of hell is being anally raped by an elephant sporting the penile unit of 6 elephants riding a gorilla down slut river to whore town. I mean its hard to under state just what an absurd proposition it is to me that the machines will replace you.

They would first have to have reasoning and perception, and if they had that they would exterminate us in the name of self preservation to begin with, forget taking your job.

Quote from: zircher on January 03, 2024, 10:42:48 AM
Legit artists using procedural/smart tools have been doing it for years and their tools are only getting more powerful/smarter.  The field is evolving, adapt or die.  You can't turtle on this one and not expect the next generation of artists to walk right on past the hold outs.

There's also good, old-fashioned tracing from porn.

Quote from: yosemitemike on January 04, 2024, 05:32:11 AM

Quote from: zircher on January 03, 2024, 10:42:48 AM
Legit artists using procedural/smart tools have been doing it for years and their tools are only getting more powerful/smarter.  The field is evolving, adapt or die.  You can't turtle on this one and not expect the next generation of artists to walk right on past the hold outs.

There's also good, old-fashioned tracing from porn.

Everything about this disturbs me...

Quote from: Slipshot762 on January 03, 2024, 10:23:53 PM
Asking it (chatgpt) to make usable lua scripts for various games or applications is hit or miss, but it can get you in the ballpark where you just have to alter a few lines or some certain settings within the game to get it working right. I think it would fail hard at doing more than copying game mechanics, but can be useful for filling pages with lore, all of which in my experience you WILL have to edit and rearrange because robots are stupid.

I used to get so mad at youngins' insisting machines were going to replace us any day now, because i worked with robots in fabrication and know better. I spent years working with them and it's hard to articulate just how not smart, not aware, and downright dangerous they can be as a result of that lack of awareness and reasoning. The bot makes the decision to cycle the process based on whether or not it feels an outgoing piece on the landing tray for example, but debris, leaves, paper, a piece of pallet or general crud can foul that contact based weight sensor/light curtain combo, and the bot will think the tray is empty and proceed to shove another piece up the first ones ass, line up a cutting head, and spin that bitch at 9 million rpms shredding parts cutter head and all while making a noise that sounds like all of hell is being anally raped by an elephant sporting the penile unit of 6 elephants riding a gorilla down slut river to whore town. I mean its hard to under state just what an absurd proposition it is to me that the machines will replace you.

They would first have to have reasoning and perception, and if they had that they would exterminate us in the name of self preservation to begin with, forget taking your job.

Ha!

I tend to agree though.  I think people's first instinct is always to freak out and overreact.

I would also note that AI is something of a misnomer when applied to the current crop of programs.

Quote from: RPGPundit on January 03, 2024, 09:41:04 PM
For my part, I'm not particularly worried. Of course, maybe certain game designers may need to be worried. Namely, the largely mediocre ones.

Like WotC?