If your PCs are in an undercroft and there are undead about, do you enable them to try and sneak past from above via hanging beams or, say, have weak walls that they can break through to circumvent areas with concentrated undead?

Just an example.

I'm sorry, I honestly don't understand.  Could you expand a bit more on your question?

If you're asking "do I enable the players to engage in lateral thinking?", I would say that I encourage it, but don't necessarily arrange things so that it can happen. In a situation where the party asks if they could sneak past hostiles in a room by going through a crawl space, I would judge if it was reasonable for that crawl space to exist, roll dice if necessary, and then allow it.

Reward clever role-play without altering the 'reality' of the situation. So, yes, sometimes. If the 'undercroft' is in the belly of a nuclear bunker, there's no way they are burrowing through the wall, no matter how clever the idea is.

Quote from: PrometheanVigil;941331If your PCs are in an undercroft and there are undead about, do you enable them to try and sneak past from above via hanging beams or, say, have weak walls that they can break through to circumvent areas with concentrated undead?

Take your conception of Undead, imagine the space as if you are really there, and see if a yes or no answer makes sense in that context.

If the bottom of the beams are six feet above the floor with a two foot clearance then no I don't think it makes sense for the party to use them to sneak past unless we are talking about undead halflings.

As for weak walls, are the walls defined as being weak in your write-up? If it doesn't say either way it is reasonable to assume that some walls are weak or perhaps the whole catacomb has weakened wall. Assign a probability and roll the dice to see if it is so.

The point of RPGs is to pretend to be a character interacting with an imagined setting doing interesting things. It not some board or miniature game with victory conditions to achieved by the use of the game rules. The rules are just one tool to be used by the human referee to handle what the character do. If the rules doesn't cover something that otherwise makes sense then you will have to use your judgment to make a ruling. The odds are high for most RPGs that there is something in the existing mechanics that can be used. For example Dexterity, Agility and Strength scores.

What should keep in mind is not to fall in the trap of thinking that the game is defined by the rules. It defined by the campaign you create around a particular setting.

In my group, players don't ask questions. Based on what has happened up to that point, players have an idea of what is possible or not and then state where they are and what they are trying to do at that moment. Then a roll is made.

Quote from: PrometheanVigil;941331If your PCs are in an undercroft and there are undead about, do you enable them to try and sneak past from above via hanging beams or, say, have weak walls that they can break through to circumvent areas with concentrated undead?

I dont enable them.

I look at the situation as has been described and judge if what they are trying to do is feasable within that context.

Normally I have ceilings high enough that such a thing should be possible. But there are times when its not. And there are lots of times theres no structure to even try it with. I usually note this sort of stuff in the initial descriptions for an area or when its a new feature to an established locale.

As for punching through a wall. Same thing. Has it been established that theres a weak wall section here or previously. More likely Id allow a dwarf character to search for flaws in the stone to hit a spot where a wall is thin and break through there. I usually though ask. "Are you sure?" and remind them that damaging or making holes in structures, especially underground ones can have disastrous consequences.

The group I DM for currently is really good at using the environment when they can.

Quote from: PrometheanVigil;941331If your PCs are in an undercroft and there are undead about, do you enable them to try and sneak past from above via hanging beams or, say, have weak walls that they can break through to circumvent areas with concentrated undead?

Just an example.

Every encounter I present to my players will never have only one solution. There's more than one way to skin a cat. I don't enable them, but I do reward clever play. In fact, they rarely resort to head on confrontation anymore.

Shemek.

Quote from: Omega;941343I usually though ask. "Are you sure?" and remind them that damaging or making holes in structures, especially underground ones can have disastrous consequences.

You're one of those GMs still? That is so crap ass.

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;941342In my group, players don't ask questions. Based on what has happened up to that point, players have an idea of what is possible or not and then state where they are and what they are trying to do at that moment. Then a roll is made.

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;941362You're one of those GMs still? That is so crap ass.

I'm confused. They can't ask question. They simply take action. The GM offers no information.

So the characters of your Players a basically blind children poking and prodding things without any information or sensory input (apart from what may or may not have been stated yet) and then see if the fallout from their action is positive or disastrous?

I'm not snarking. I'm honestly trying to figure out what is happening in your game.

Quote from: ChristopherKubasik;941364I'm confused. They can't ask question. They simply take action. The GM offers no information.

So the characters of your Players a basically blind children poking and prodding things without any information or sensory input (apart from what may or may not have been stated yet) and then see if the fallout from their action is positive or disastrous?

I'm not snarking. I'm honestly trying to figure out what is happening in your game.

He's a dickweevil, that's what's happening.  He was an early transplant to my Tongue My Pee Hole list for a reason.

Quote from: Shemek hiTankolel;941357Every encounter I present to my players will never have only one solution. There's more than one way to skin a cat. I don't enable them, but I do reward clever play. In fact, they rarely resort to head on confrontation anymore.

Shemek.

Oh, is THAT what he's talking about.

To quote the late John M. Ford, some players will want to fight their way through a situation, some will want to sneak their way through, and some will want to talk their way through.  You should do your best to have all three approaches viable.  Though a special situation like a bunch of mindless undead might reduce the possibilities.

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;941362You're one of those GMs still? That is so crap ass.

No. You are just unable to GM like a human being. Try again please.

I treat PCs as competent. I don't expect players to have their PC's knowledge. A dwarf may note a weakness in the wall and understand the dangers / risks that poses even though the player may not. I have no problem saying "your hero knows...." when there isn't a reason for the player to have that knowledge. Heck, Call of Cthulhu even has a Knowledge roll for this stuff.

Quote from: PrometheanVigil;941331If your PCs are in an undercroft and there are undead about, do you enable them to try and sneak past from above via hanging beams or, say, have weak walls that they can break through to circumvent areas with concentrated undead?

I'm not sure how you're using "enable" here, so I won't give a straight yes-or-no answer, but, if there are appropriate hanging beams present, then I'll allow them to use those beams to sneak past and, if there's a weak wall, then they're perfectly free to break through it.  However, I will not specifically place hanging beams or weak walls for the express purpose of creating opportunities for players to do these things.  And I absolutely won't let players use out-of-character metapoints to conjure them into existence solely for the sake of ensuring that they can always do anything and everything they might dream up.

So:

- I will "enable" players to use anything present to their advantage
- I will not place things with the specific intention of "enabling" certain solutions
- I do not "enable" players to place things during play via narrative fiat