I was surprised to hear someone recently talking about how gamers now treat their RPG books as "collectibles", and take care not to smudge them, bend pages, or especially (god forbid) write on them! And how this is different from the old days and the way "we" used to treat them "when we were kids".
So what's the story? Are gamers putting their books in plastic vacuum-seal?
Or do you still write notes in your RPG books?
RPGPundit
I dont think there is much point in vacuum sealing them since they are meant to be used regularly. Usually I am a bit careful with mine the first week or so I get then, but after a game session or two, i get comfortable with bending pages and wearing the book down.
I'm pretty careful with mine, not because they might turn out to be (or are) "collectible" but because I am pretty careful with all books. For example, I have paperback novels I bought in the 1960s when I was a kid that have been read many times and still look almost new.
People can handle their own books any way they want without comment from me. However, if you handle my books you had better handle them gently and with clean hands -- or you will not be handling them again.
I use them regularly but try to treat them well, and i don't write in them.
They're not study books and if i have to write house rules down etc. i do so in a small notebook i keep with my gaming materials.
Quote from: RandallS;612860People can handle their own books any way they want without comment from me. However, if you handle my books you had better handle them gently and with clean hands -- or you will not be handling them again.
To me is is a good rule of thumb for any personal possessions. The one that really gets me is folks borrowing a dvd or cd and just placing the disc on the floor or counter without putting it in the case.
When I was a kid I colored in every picture in the Fiend Folio with crayon. And as I aged from being a pre-teen to a teenager, I really regretted doing that. I never really wrote in any of my RPGs then - besides writing my name on the inside cover, or on the first page.
In your terms, I'd be classified as a "collector". I don't keep them in a hermetically-sealed chamber, or use white gloves to handle them and forceps to turn the pages. But, I do make an effort to keep them in good condition - I don't write in them, bend or fold pages, trash the spines. I treat textbooks like that, not RPGs.
If I feel the need to write up a houserule, "scribble" out a rule I dislike, or otherwise correct an RPG I don't write in the margins, or whatever. I'll write up these things in a WORD .doc , and distribute them with printed out chargen instructions, equipment and combat tables, etc. (I try to run sessions with a minimum of referencing a core book. Print out what I need, use a GM screen, if necessary).
Quote from: RPGPundit;612858Or do you still write notes in your RPG books?
Notes, diagrams, charts, even a sketch or two - they're manuals, not collectibles.
Quote from: RandallS;612860I'm pretty careful with mine, not because they might turn out to be (or are) "collectible" but because I am pretty careful with all books. For example, I have paperback novels I bought in the 1960s when I was a kid that have been read many times and still look almost new.
People can handle their own books any way they want without comment from me. However, if you handle my books you had better handle them gently and with clean hands -- or you will not be handling them again.
Same with me - I have paperbacks that date back to the fifties, and I still read them. I try to be careful with all books because I read and re-read them. Since I started gaming when I was an adult - 21 - All my books are subject to minimum wear and tear. I never wrote in any of them.
-clash
I treat all my stuff with care (RPG or otherwise) - why wreck something when you could just as easily not? I don't mind writing a few notes in modules and the like - it's kinda neat to see the grafitti I wrote in some 1980s books as a kid.
Do what you like to your stuff, don't wreck mine.
There was that one time when another player handled my 1e AD&D DMG with cheeto fingers - that was the last time he ever saw that book. He didn't see the big deal.
There was that other time when someone borrowed one of my new/not-at-all-collectable books. If I recall correctly, his daughter accidentally spilled water on it and the pages puffed up. He proactively bought me a new copy and we're all good.
I wonder if it's a birth order thing. Perhaps the eldest child is more protective of their stuff because the younger ones tend to destroy things. Younger kids get used hand-me-downs that aren't pristine and never had to defend their possessions. I can see this kind of behaviour with my kids.
Quote from: RandallS;612860I'm pretty careful with mine, not because they might turn out to be (or are) "collectible" but because I am pretty careful with all books. For example, I have paperback novels I bought in the 1960s when I was a kid that have been read many times and still look almost new.
People can handle their own books any way they want without comment from me. However, if you handle my books you had better handle them gently and with clean hands -- or you will not be handling them again.
+1. This sums up my position.
Count me among those that treat their books very well but not for some collectible reason. I'm a bibliophile and treat every book I own like it's a rare gem of someone's collection. I just like books and I like them to look brand new, even if they are older.
Nearly every paperback I own looks like it has never been read.
Quote from: Black Vulmea;612868Notes, diagrams, charts, even a sketch or two - they're manuals, not collectibles.
Same here.
People who write in their books are nothing more than uncouth savages.
Book Lovers Fear Dim Future for Notes in the Margins (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/21/books/21margin.html)
Quote from: vytzka;612904People who write in their books are nothing more than uncouth savages.
Isaac Newton, Thomas Jefferson, Edger Allan Poe, Mark Twain, and just about everyone who was anyone in the 18th and 19th centuries.
And I wouldn't loan my books to any of them. Look Poe, if you want to make a character at home for Tuesday's campaign you'll have to buy your own rulebook. You clearly haven't demonstrated your capability to take adequate care of them.
Quote from: vytzka;612909And I wouldn't loan my books to any of them. Look Poe, if you want to make a character at home for Tuesday's campaign you'll have to buy your own rulebook.
I wouldn't let Poe in my game at all. He'd probably write up elaborate Character back stories, complete with poetry. Urg.
I was a first born and my OCD gets the best of me sometimes, I admit. I'm the same way with all types of books, even comics. I was even that way with my toys when I was younger. If I see people "cracking" the pages when they read, it's almost as bad as hearing nails on a chalkboard. When I buy books in stores, I will usually put a book back if I see the creases, unless I can overcome my OCD and I want it bad enough.
I'm like this with my books and boxed sets, but with recently trying to get my daughter into gaming, I've tried not to be such a bull about this. I let her thumb through my pristine D&D red box and she was thumbing through the pages like an average person. I was thinking "oh, no, you can't do that." It's really not healthy. I can't take your books with you when you die, so my logic dictates that I should use these books instead of treating them like they are holy texts. OCD is not logical by any means though and it's a constant battle.
My mother instilled in me a deep respect for books, particularly school text books that we needed to sell in order to pay for the next year's books :p We had to cover them in clear Contact Paper and erase any doodles. Highlighting was OK, though.
I continue this tradition with my RPG books. The Contact Paper really helps against accidental spills at the table, and books that I've owned and used since the early 90's are still in great condition.
I use my books, but I never write in them. Writing in books was impressed upon me as a big no-no when I was very young.
But they do end up dog-eared and the bindings can break.
I'm a collector in the sense that I want a complete library for my perusal - not because I try to keep everything in immaculate condition. That said, I try to be gentle.
Books are jewels. Like jewels, there's no point in storing them without using them. And like jewels, a modicum of care is necessary if you want them to last.
I take pretty good care of my books but can't honestly say they're unblemished. Some wear-and-tear is inevitable, not to mention aging. Still, a well-preserved book ages graciously, with the yellowingt pages and the musky, moldy odor of bygone sensibilities that I've come to cherish.
I'm OK with written stuff on books -- I get a kick out of reading marginal handwriting on used books -- but I don't do it.
I used to lend them out, until one came back with obscene graffiti throughout.
I used to write notes in them in pencil and write hit point losses on monsters, but don't do that now.
Having had a couple of books fall apart through overuse, I now tend to use PDFs instead and leave the originals on the bookshelf.
The reason I have backed the Glorantha Kickstarter at PDF level is mainly because I would be terrified of opening the things and cracking the spines or spilling something on the pages or bending e corner down.
It's hard to crease a PDF ...
I treat my RPG books like I treat all my books of every kind. I treat them with respect and try to take care of them. However, I still use them. I don't seal them away or treat them as museum objects. They are useless unless read and enjoyed, IMO.
Quote from: The Butcher;612930Books are jewels. Like jewels, there's no point in storing them without using them. And like jewels, a modicum of care is necessary if you want them to last.
I take pretty good care of my books but can't honestly say they're unblemished. Some wear-and-tear is inevitable, not to mention aging. Still, a well-preserved book ages graciously, with the yellowingt pages and the musky, moldy odor of bygone sensibilities that I've come to cherish.
I'm OK with written stuff on books -- I get a kick out of reading marginal handwriting on used books -- but I don't do it.
Exactly how I see it as well.
Quote from: Phantom Black;612861I use them regularly but try to treat them well, and i don't write in them.
They're not study books and if i have to write house rules down etc. i do so in a small notebook i keep with my gaming materials.
Same here.
Quote from: Piestrio;612907Isaac Newton, Thomas Jefferson, Edger Allan Poe, Mark Twain, and just about everyone who was anyone in the 18th and 19th centuries.
Meh, they're still human beings. I don't put them on pedestals any more than I do my books. Sure they are great fellers all and I appreciate their contributions, but if they marked up their books then I choose, in that respect, to be very unlike them. I'd like to think they'd respect that.
Quote from: vytzka;612909And I wouldn't loan my books to any of them. Look Poe, if you want to make a character at home for Tuesday's campaign you'll have to buy your own rulebook. You clearly haven't demonstrated your capability to take adequate care of them.
I resemble this remark.
Quote from: deadDMwalking;612927Writing in books was impressed upon me as a big no-no when I was very young.
Me too.
But I grew up.
Quote from: Sigmund;612951Meh, they're still human beings. I don't put them on pedestals any more than I do my books. Sure they are great fellers all and I appreciate their contributions, but if they marked up their books then I choose, in that respect, to be very unlike them. I'd like to think they'd respect that.
I was just responding to the biblio-fetishism that says writing in books is somehow wrong.
Quote from: RandallS;612860I'm pretty careful with mine, not because they might turn out to be (or are) "collectible" but because I am pretty careful with all books. For example, I have paperback novels I bought in the 1960s when I was a kid that have been read many times and still look almost new.
People can handle their own books any way they want without comment from me. However, if you handle my books you had better handle them gently and with clean hands -- or you will not be handling them again.
Yep, this. I take care of all my books. RPG, fiction, whatever. It has nothing to do with being "collectible" or having resale value, it's just the way I am.
Quote from: RPGPundit;612858I was surprised to hear someone recently talking about how gamers now treat their RPG books as "collectibles", and take care not to smudge them, bend pages, or especially (god forbid) write on them! And how this is different from the old days and the way "we" used to treat them "when we were kids".
So what's the story? Are gamers putting their books in plastic vacuum-seal?
Or do you still write notes in your RPG books?
RPGPundit
I have multiple sets of various gaming books. On the one hand, I've got my DMG, Monster Manual and a dozen or so copies of the Players Handbook (as well as Fiend Folio and Monster Manual II, and two or three Unearthed Arcana). I've got a really ragged out copy of Deities & Demigods for the rare occasion I need it. Other than the DMG having Gary's autograph and the Monster Manual being a 4th print with red flyleaves there's nothing exceptional about any of it.
I've got another set of the three core rulebooks that are all true first prints. The DMG stops at appendix M, has the goldenrod endpapers, etc., the Monster Manual has the true 1st art by DCS in it, etc. etc. Those I found in a local used bookstore for $5 each (!). There's also a pretty damn nice (unexpurgated) Deities & Demigods (I had six copies until recently when I needed some cash and sold them off, leaving me with the ragged copy and one good condition copy). Those books, I don't game with.
Similarly I've got two sets of OD&D books; one is loose and is autographed by Gary & Dave. Likewise a Chainmail autographed by Gary, a Supplement I Greyhawk autographed by Kuntz & Gygax, and so on and so on, then I have an OCE in box with the ref sheets, a plain-Jane Greyhawk, and a couple of copies of Chainmail (well...three, two in shrinkwrap still) that, if I wanted to play OD&D, would be the ones I used.
All of the other gaming books I have get the full "hobbyist" treatment - margins written in, pages dog-eared, etc. etc.
Quote from: RPGPundit;612858I was surprised to hear someone recently talking about how gamers now treat their RPG books as "collectibles", and take care not to smudge them, bend pages, or especially (god forbid) write on them! And how this is different from the old days and the way "we" used to treat them "when we were kids".
So what's the story? Are gamers putting their books in plastic vacuum-seal?
Or do you still write notes in your RPG books?
Not at all. My books show the wear of constant love, reading and use. I can only assume the people collecting RPG books aren't actually playing them (unless they buy the book as a collectible and use the pdf I guess).
Quote from: vytzka;612904People who write in their books are nothing more than uncouth savages.
Then I am an uncouth savage to the bone. virtually all my books (save my RPG books) have my chicken scrawl on every page. I was told from a young age to write in books. If I have a question, find something that seems innacurate, or get an idea, I happily write it in the margin or underline passages. The books themselves are not what is important, it's the ideas in them that matter, and I think it is healthy to use note taking in the book itself to help read more critically.
Now when it comes to rpg books, I am more reluctant to write in them because they are largely used for reference and I worry about accidentally obscuring important information. Usually will do it in modules though to help meremember important parts or to make modifications (for rulebooks I usually just place stcky tabs on key pages).
Quote from: BedrockBrendan;612986Then I am an uncouth savage to the bone. virtually all my books (save my RPG books) have my chicken scrawl on every page. I was told from a young age to write in books. If I have a question, find something that seems innacurate, or get an idea, I happily write it in the margin or underline passages. The books themselves are not what is important, it's the ideas in them that matter, and I think it is healthy to use note taking in the book itself to help read more critically.
Its difficult to really dig into a book without a pen/pencil in hand.
Quote from: Piestrio;612988Its difficult to really dig into a book without a pen/pencil in hand.
I tend to agree. Mostly I read history books and I find pausing to note details is an impportant memory aid for me. It also helps me put some of the pieces together. Writing to me feels like a natural extension of reading.
Quote from: RPGPundit;612858I was surprised to hear someone recently talking about how gamers now treat their RPG books as "collectibles", and take care not to smudge them, bend pages, or especially (god forbid) write on them! And how this is different from the old days and the way "we" used to treat them "when we were kids".
So what's the story? Are gamers putting their books in plastic vacuum-seal?
Or do you still write notes in your RPG books?
RPGPundit
I still have game books in good condition from 1983 because I don't fold, bend, spindle, or mutilate them. You don't have to vacuum-seal a book in plastic to treat it in such a manner that it lasts for decades of use.
And no, I do not write in my books. Ever. That is sinful.
Amazingly, older books in good condition make you more money should you decide to sell them.
Obviously I don't believe in gratuitously damaging books; but as I am not a collector of any kind (at least not in the sense of owning something just to have it in a pristine condition to show off), I do believe in actually USING the books and anything that comes as a result of that use only adds to my affection for it.
And anyone who looks at my RPG books would immediately be able to tell the difference between those books I never or very rarely used in actual play and those that I used in campaigns. The latter will be full of scribbled additions or changes based on my houserules in play.
RPGPundit
Oddly, my books with quotations, historical books, and religious texts have numerous notes or highlights within them (though I've gotten in the habit of using Sticky notes), none of my RPG books have such anecdotes (unless signed).
My college textbooks (I still own better than 90% of them) also have minimal note-taking in them (and most of that, is girl's phone numbers... :o ).
EDIT: I have recently "destroyed" a lot of my older RPG books, to make good-quality PDF's (I need to hyperlink and bookmark, to make them "high-quality PDF's"). I've found the quality on a lot of old WEG Star Wars PDF's on the web iffy at best, so I decided to make my own.
Quote from: soltakss;612945I used to lend them out, until one came back with obscene graffiti throughout.
I used to write notes in them in pencil and write hit point losses on monsters, but don't do that now.
Having had a couple of books fall apart through overuse, I now tend to use PDFs instead and leave the originals on the bookshelf.
The reason I have backed the Glorantha Kickstarter at PDF level is mainly because I would be terrified of opening the things and cracking the spines or spilling something on the pages or bending e corner down.
It's hard to crease a PDF ...
I lent out my new Traveller LBB's in (get) High school it came back useless due to a permanent marker Rembrandt. I hunted him down and "extracted" financial recompense. It seems his daddy told him to "take peoples rpg books and deface them to upset us satanists"
I treat my books as gentle as I can, I used to work at a bookstore, and could read novels without bending the spine or covers in a noticeable way.
Admittedly though game books get used by far more than me, and they get worn as time goes on. They aren't collectables to me, they're tools, and a good tool may have a little wear. Mind you I'm still careful with them, and sometimes replace ones that are too badly damaged. Most often this is because of bad book design, I'm looking at you Hellas. I love the game but the books landscape format was NOT thought out well.
I left a banana (dinner) in the same bag as my RC (back in the days before ebay) and when I finally found my RC I was distraught - blackened, looked soggy, like it'd been in a fire, pages stuck together and generally all fcuked. It was years before I bought another. Before then I'd been kind to my books (as much as could be) though some were notoriously fragile - I think the Stormbringer book only had to be opened to loosen some of the pages, and after a couple of weeks, fell to bits. My MERP (1e) book from 1984 or whenever it came out is in bits somewhere.
Everything else is kept reasonably intact with no notes or scribble inside. I still feel shame for the banana incident. :idunno:
i don't vacuum seal anything but i do take care to not bend pages or handle my books with greasy fingers. i have books that are 30+ years old but look as if they were purchased yesterday.
I read and use my books, but I have a lot of books that are ten years old that look almost new. I also treat novels this way. I want my books to last.
I don't buy game books that I don't plan on using. Bare hands, pass them around the table, thumb through them, lay them down with the spine facing up... it's all expected wear and tear and I figure I'll have to replace books occasionally.
If you write in my books, though, I will open one of my six mouths and sing the song that ends the Earth.
Quote from: RandallS;612860I'm pretty careful with mine, not because they might turn out to be (or are) "collectible" but because I am pretty careful with all books. For example, I have paperback novels I bought in the 1960s when I was a kid that have been read many times and still look almost new.
People can handle their own books any way they want without comment from me. However, if you handle my books you had better handle them gently and with clean hands -- or you will not be handling them again.
My thoughts exactly. I treat my books nicely because I like to treat my books nicely. I'm not much of a "paperback in the bathtub" type.
Quote from: K Peterson;612867In your terms, I'd be classified as a "collector". I don't keep them in a hermetically-sealed chamber, or use white gloves to handle them and forceps to turn the pages. But, I do make an effort to keep them in good condition - I don't write in them, bend or fold pages, trash the spines. I treat textbooks like that, not RPGs.
Yeah. I'm careful with my books, and I would be pretty pissed off if someone else was careless with my books, but that's just because I'm careful with all my stuff. I found it hard enough to justify writing in study books...
On the other hand, RPG books are designed to be used at the table. And I have no problem with doing that. Ain't no point in owning them otherwise, and if they suffer wear and tear, well, that's just what happens.
I actually got in a fist fight at school when someone ripped the back cover off my copy of Dungeoneer.
Well, I certainly wouldn't let someone else write in my book...
RPGPundit
I read them, but will try to get PDF versions so I can keep the books in fairly good condition. All my Pathfinder books have PDF versions on my laptop as I don't want to cart around the books and use them.
I keep my books and rpg stuff in the garage because the Mrs. doesn't want gaming stuff in the house.
Quote from: RPGPundit;614643Well, I certainly wouldn't let someone else write in my book...
Yeah, certainly not. That would be an immediate "congradulations, you've just purchased that" reaction from me.
I handle my books with reasonable care but at the end of the day they are there to be used and a bit of wear and tear is inevitable. For me the text is the thing. When I assembled my near complete collection of 1E D&D material I was never much concerned with the condition of the modules as long as they were complete.
I treat my gaming books today the same way I have always treated books, as cherished items you protect. I would never write in a book, any book. My books have suffered wear and tera over the years. But not by my hand. Even books I have loathed, I could not destroy. Most of my books look as good today as the day I bought them. I am proud of this fact.
I do have a mild case of OCD, but life taught me to overcome it. I'm a writer beside being a role-player, and taking notes and using keylighters on research materials is vital if I want to put them to good use. This usually requires taking a deep breath before plunging in - like plunging in cold waters.
Ironically a friend of my father, an engeneer with a deep love for literature, once looked at a pile of bent, marked, highligted and worn out books of mine, and sighed "This is what I missed in my life!"
I can empathize :) When I bought Pathfinder's Beginner Box I gave it to a friend of mine who wanted to become a DM and I told her: "Do anything you feel necessary: take notes, bend pages, highlight passages... Don't worry about the fact that it is mine". Next time I saw it, the books were almost doubled in size, with post-its, additional materials, notebook pages crammed in and highlights in three different colours. And I thought: "Sigh... Why I can't be like her?"
I must admit I do have that kind of reverence, not just for game books but books in general. Illogical and sentimental I know but I can't help it. Books are an artform after all.
Quote from: K Peterson;612867When I was a kid I colored in every picture in the Fiend Folio with crayon.
My S.O. did that to the old Monster Manual when he was in high school, but with colored pencils instead of crayon. It's probably the only book we own that's extensively marked up, and looking at it makes me laugh.
Quote from: Dana;614959My S.O. did that to the old Monster Manual when he was in high school, but with colored pencils instead of crayon. It's probably the only book we own that's extensively marked up, and looking at it makes me laugh.
I resisted that urge. I know lots of other kids who did it; I think they were more "artistic" than me.
RPGPundit
My RPG books regularly disintegrate under the way I treat them. Pictures of other people's gaming shelves always disturb me, because all their books seem to have complete spines.