First: is there some point in hit point damage where a person is unconscious but not dead?  Is it at precisely 0 hp? Or do you do something else?

Second, how do you handle something that would knock someone out without necessarily reducing them to 0hp?  what has to happen for someone to be knocked out? How do you determine the length of unconsciousness?

0 to -5 hit points: unconscious
-6 to -10 hitpoints: mostly dead
-11 or more Hit Points: dead, dead

If I'm running straight HP, which I rarely do, 0hp is incapacitated and severely wounded. Any further attacks after that just polish them off. Other than that you lose 1d6 hp per round until stabilized, when you hit a negative amount equal to your CON your ass is dead. Typically getting to this point means you are going to be laid up a long time barring magical healing and you could even suffer some permanent damage.

As to just straight knocking someone out, it requires actively seeking to strike the head. If you succeed on the hit, at some sort of penalty of course, the victim is out for 1dX rounds.

If at 0 HP exactly they are unconscious.  If they take damage that brings them to -1 to -9 HP they have a chance of dying equal to their negative HP total x 10% (so -4 HP means 40% chance of dying).  If they survive they are unconscious until raised to at least 1 HP.

If somebody says "I want to knock them out" if the target is an ordinary person and the PC rolls at all well, they're knocked out, just like in a Flash Gordon serial; they're out for 'a while.'  I don't want to get to the point some Champion games reached, where the hero is beating on the unconscious villain saying "Is he at -30 stun yet?  *WHACK*  Is he at -30 stun yet? * WHACK *"

For non first level types, that's what 'subdual' damage is for.

I guess "it depends" is the best answer.  Sorry.

0hp usually.

Outside of combat I use STR of the attacker vs CON of the target check based on the various factors.
In combat I do not allow instant KO sapping on a regular basis as it is just not really practical in the constant jockying that is going in a single round. And to curb abuse. If they want to switch to dealing subdual damage in a fight then sure.

I do though apply a "critical death" factor which if the target is hit too hard they may die. So dont score a critical. Mainely because research on KOing shows that there is oft a very fine line between knocking someone out and killing them. Which makes 5es near insta-death when hit at 0hp make alot more sense.

I've been meaning to re-read these rules for Earthdawn 4, thanks for the opportunity to get it all summarized.

Earthdawn uses a count-up Damage system, and has Unconsciousness Rating (hence, KO Rating) and Death Rating thresholds -generated from the Toughness attribute. There are 2 Damage types: Regular and Stun - and illusion damage is Regular "real" Damage once you fail your disbelief test, but cannot push you to or above your Death rating. You have a pool of Recovery Tests that you can use each day.

Attacking to Stun is a Combat Option declared at the beginning of the round. If total Regular + Stun is over your KO rating, you are Unconscious. Unconscious characters take no actions other than Recovery tests, and are considered Blindsided and Knocked-down.

Stun damage does not cause Wounds if the damage is over the character's Wound Threshold, but the target is instead considered Harried for the round. Knockdown checks are rolled as normal if Wound Threshold+5 or above was rolled. Creatures who have a KO Rating of N/A are immune to stun damage.

The first Recovery test made after taking Stun damage can either be rolled as Toughness (as normal) to heal both Regular and Stun damage, or can be rolled as Toughness+Willpower to recover just Stun damage. If the total Damage is brought under the KO Rating, the character wakes up.

A character may make a Recovery test one minute after falling unconscious if unattended, or immediately if another character uses an Action to assist. If it fails to bring them conscious, they must wait an hour & have one minute of rest to make another Recovery test, as normal.

Oh yes, magical healing aids. These allow you to immediately use a Recovery test + add a bonus to the roll. If you are out of Recovery tests for the day, you just use the bonus as a stand-alone Recovery test. Healing Potions are nice to have around.

There is "cinematic" unconsciousness and "realistic" unconsciousness.

In a cinematic RPG setting, I am happy to have people smack empty bottles or fancy planters over the guard's head to knock him out. That fits the genre. Totally works for Pulp Serial stuff and Firefly style games.

But my OD&D game is gritty fantasy where FOR ME, 0 HP = unconscious and -1 HP equals death. Interestingly enough, I am surprised how often PCs and NPCs actually get knocked to 0 HP.

If I wanted a more "cinematic" OD&D, I would give a save vs. death at -1 HP to just be "dying" and I would let people who were "striking to stun" to force the foe a save vs. death to be knocked out.

Yes, in terms of non-cinematic play, "semi-conscious but incapacitated" actually happens way more often than "knocked out".

I like 5e's version. Though I like -10 HP optional rule for AD&D 2e, too.

Quote from: RPGPundit;839771Yes, in terms of non-cinematic play, "semi-conscious but incapacitated" actually happens way more often than "knocked out".

Dazed.

In my system-behind-the-screen session, I separated unconsciousness from a bleeding out/dying state.  The system I'm using is based on 0e/S&W, Microlite20 and Microlite74Ex, so 1d6 damage for everything and 1d6 hit die (+ stat modifier once).  So I have a check whenever you take damage to see if you pass out.  It takes a hardy individual to take 6 damage and not fall unconscious, but taking 1-3 will rarely knock you out.  Oh, if the injury knocking you out doesn't make sense, it'll be temporary stunning until the roll is passed again.

0 is dying, gravely wounded, etc., but you may be conscious for it (and even make take some action depending on the nature of the injury).  Take any more damage and you're done.  If a single blow takes you to 0 and causes knockout, it's just fatal.  So the unconsciousness roll is also sort of a save vs death.

The next session I'm also adding people not knowing the state of someone who goes unconscious beyond what they can sense.  So if you see someone get bashed over the head with a rock, you may not know whether they just got knocked out or had their skull cracked and their brain hemorrhaged until you see if they're still breathing or something.  In the last session I just told the player the result of being knocked unconscious but still alive.  Not so next time.

In my D&D games, 0hp is unconsciousness, and that works out well for me in terms of deadly combat, meaning that its rare and largely a question of luck if you get knocked out rather than being severely wounded or killed.

But this is not all that good for intentionally non-lethal attacks seeking to knock someone out.  And generally I think that "non-lethal damage" the way it's typically handled in D&D is kind of cumbersome.

First post!

I have devised two systems for that. The first based on 5e: at 0 HP, death saving throw, failure means you are uncosncious, disabled or dying. Three failures mean death.

For Old School games, I find that this is too forgiving, so I use something like this:

Roll. Effect
1-2. Dying. Roll again every turn.
3-4. Disabled. Roll again if you try any significant effort (moving more than half speed, fighting, etc).
5-6. Unconscious. You can be awakened with ease by other characters, but if you aren't roll again after 10 minutes.

In any case, all dice rolled are kept on the table until you can get decent rest and healing (which usually means recovering HP). Rolling the same number twice means death.

Rules for automatic death still aplly.

(original posts here and here)

EDIT: for less extreme situations, you could use bleeding / tripped / dazed, for example.

I also like Perrin rules (IIRC) where if you want to make someone unconscious, you mak an attack. If it would take 10% of its hit points, it is a 10% chance of knockout instead. And maybe 20% chance of a knockdown?

I guess I would double this probability to make it worthwile (maybe more damage with the right tools, such as blunt weapons). Also, waht about immediate death if rolling doubles, for that added risk of accidental death? Seems easier and more fun than non-lethal damage.

Welcome Eric Diaz! :cheerleader:

Quote from: RPGPundit;839285Second, how do you handle something that would knock someone out without necessarily reducing them to 0hp?  what has to happen for someone to be knocked out? How do you determine the length of unconsciousness?

I realized I didn't answer this part.

For 5e it would be the Unconsciousness condition. But few things go straight into this condition. First one I can think of is the Sleep spell. As for RAW weapon knock-out there's Stay Your Blade, but that's on the last melee blow that knocks the target to 0 HP — not exactly what you're asking for.

I found the 2e rules for knock-out quite solid.

Roughly it's 5% KO chance per S or M melee weapon die damage (IIRC don't add most mods, like magic, etc.). And the damage dealt is also 75% temporary damage, healing at 1 HP per 10 min. The drawback is it's a called shot to hit (-4).

The sap/blackjack special weapon did 1d4 dmg but had 20% KO chance per weapon die damage (thus up to 80%). I prefer the % roll to be done behind the screen, though I will let players roll it behind my screen (they drop it over my screen then get surprised by the result). In practice it all actually works quickly and neatly.

You could convert it to 5E, I think.

Basically, to account for only Small or Medium sized melee weapons, only allow base 1d8 damage or lower weapons (I'd allow versatile weapons like L. Swd here, too) during their melee attack. Next have the attack at Disadvantage to account for Called Shot -4 to hit. Then use +5% per pip of the damage die alone — no features, damage mods, or abilities can be added to this % — however do recognize nat 20 critical hits and that singular extra die of damage. Lastly, roll that derived % roll, heal up 75% of that attack's damage by the end of the hour, and use Stabilize rules 1d4 to determine how many hours before regaining consciousness.