Quote from: One Horse Town;727860It's weird, but the ones we've been gaming for years tend to end very organically. We all kind of know when it's time to wrap it up.

Normally it's when we've just achieved something that we seriously doubt we can top in that campaign. Better to go out at the top rather than have a slow decline into mediocrity.

Same here. Can often feel the ending. Usually a few players accomplish lifelong goals, or end up wanting to quit adventuring and settle down, or theres a setting-changing battle we know we cant top.

Most of my campaigns since 2000 have had campaign goals, and end when the goal is completed. Defeat some big evil force, complete exploration of the  megadungeon, etc. I find 3e D&D works best as a limited game, level 1-8 or maybe 1-10, so it works well for such focused games. Campaigns also end when the badguys win and typically kill the PCs. My current 4e D&D campaign is structured around going levels 1-30 2011-2016, and I expect it to end at level 30 after a climactic showdown with the forces of particularly-evil evil; although I'll then consult with the players what to do next and we might conceivably start a new campaign with new PCs in the same campaign setting.

Quote from: Black Vulmea;727924'There is no thematic, discrete end of the campaign' != 'we didn't play our way to high level.'

I know they're not directly analagous, but from what I'm hearing is that there are a lot of people whose campaigns ended long before they planned on it due to several reasons.  Unless people play the bulk of their campaigns at high level (I don't think that's the case), I came to the assumption that high level play was something that was never reached by the time the campaigns fell apart.

I'd have to say 90% of them get killed by life/real world things than anything. Too many players leaving, Getting burned out, etc.

Only one or two truly came to a resolved end.

One of those they played D&D 3.5 till 14-15th and beat the big bad, one character dying in a manner he wished so that his name would live on and such. Now days I would have run an epilogue sort of session showing what happened to the characters but back then it just ended.

Though I have had a few campaign/long adventure games that I ran as fillers or knowing they were not gonna last long that actually concluded but they weren't really serious campaigns.

Most just wither away some how. Sad really!

Some of my recent campaigns that have definitely ended (my 1e AD&D Yggsburgh online game is on hiatus, but may resume):

4e D&D Punjar Saga - episodic, unambitious series of DCC 4e adventures, designed to introduce newbies to 4e and build up a new Meetup venue. Ended 5th level I think, with a near TPK on the Isle of the Sea Drake. Lone survivor PC grabbed the money and ran. Not a brilliant campaign but it established the Tuesday night Meetup with up to 40 or so people attending, so achieved metagame goal.

4e D&D 'Southlands' - Heavy Metal Swords and Sorcery campaign, ended at level 10 when Varek the lead PC and all his companions fell holding the bridge at Bisgen against the ghoul horde of the Neo-Nerathi Necromancer Borritt Crowfinger. They all died but they gave the engineers time to collapse the bridge, allowing Bisgen to be evacuated before the ghouls could cross. Varek's player shook my hand at the end, grinning ear to ear. I count that one a success.

4e D&D 'Vault of Larin Karr': sandbox converted from 3e, ended at 8th level when 2 of 3 PCs captured by fire giant for fiery sacrifice, one fled. Was a bit bored with this one, '4e' and 'sandbox' just don't seem to mix well, my later 4e campaigns have been much better. Count it a learning experience.

3e D&D 'Willow Vale': episodic linked modules campaign with a save-Vale-from Chaos theme. Ended with highest PC 8th level, ended with X5 Temple of Death - PCs defeated the Master of the Desert Nomads and saved the Vale. Should have ended there as a big success. Instead I tried to run 'Where Chaos Reigns' as a follow on, that was a disaster that I think lasted 3 sessions.

3e D&D Lost City of Barakus - sandbox megadungeon/wilderness, really ended at 8th level when PCs cleared the megadungeon and killed the lich at the bottom. Success, however then attempted to convert setting over to C&C and continue on with the same PCs, that didn't work well.

I generally end my campaigns when a particular story-arc (as in defined in-play, not pre-established) ends and folk - generally me wanting to playtest a new game, but sometimes not - decide it's a good spot to stop.

-clash

Quote from: flyingmice;727958I generally end my campaigns when a particular story-arc (as in defined in-play, not pre-established) ends and folk - generally me wanting to playtest a new game, but sometimes not - decide it's a good spot to stop.

-clash

Yeah.  Less "This game is done," more "We want to try some different stuff and this seems like a good spot to stop."

Quote from: Old Geezer;727966Yeah.  Less "This game is done," more "We want to try some different stuff and this seems like a good spot to stop."

that happens frequently with my group over the years as well.  I guess what I'm getting at, is that should campaign designs be smaller in scope, since it appears that for most people, for one reason or the other, they don't go from zero to demi-god (level 1 to 15+ for example).  it seems most campaigns I have seen, they cover level 1 all the way up to near end game.  I'm just wondering if that's just wasted work, for the most part.  Either people get bored, burned out, life happens, etc.

You know, the only real consistant preconceived notion I have when starting a campaign is: "This should be about having fun."

Quote from: Sacrosanct;727968that happens frequently with my group over the years as well.  I guess what I'm getting at, is that should campaign designs be smaller in scope, since it appears that for most people, for one reason or the other, they don't go from zero to demi-god (level 1 to 15+ for example).  it seems most campaigns I have seen, they cover level 1 all the way up to near end game.  I'm just wondering if that's just wasted work, for the most part.  Either people get bored, burned out, life happens, etc.

It just depends. I just ended an IRC campaign that lasted 11 years. Each year, there was one main story arc, but they all were related, and the last eight years were definitely all one huge story arc that encompassed the rest. Players came and went, but there were two players that played through the whole campaign, and one who played all but the first year. OTOH, most of my face to face campaigns go about three to six months before they end. The campaign lasts as long as it lasts - how long is a string?

I didn't plan for that 11 year campaign - I just went a single story arc at a time. The big story arc? That came about because of certain things the players set in motion all along, and judgements they made. None of it was planned.

Something I *did* do was run this game for six months out of the year, and something else - now eight years old - the other six. It kept things focused, and kept me - and probably others - from burnout.

-clash

Quote from: TristramEvans;727927Same here. Can often feel the ending. Usually a few players accomplish lifelong goals, or end up wanting to quit adventuring and settle down, or theres a setting-changing battle we know we cant top.

Our games often have an end game, a campaign goal that brings on the closing credits. Sometimes there's an epilogue that wraps up different character's loose ends and dangling plot threads if there are any. Some characters retire, others are assumed to be off having further adventures, etc.

Though some have just ended either fizzled from lack of interest or it just "felt" right for the group involved, their stories were complete, goals accomplished and anything more would have felt like jumping the shark without a significant change to the game. We've revived a couple of those later with a fresh outlook almost as sequels.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;727932. . . I came to the assumption that high level play was something that was never reached by the time the campaigns fell apart.

Ass, you, me.

Quote from: Black Vulmea;728028Ass, you, me.

what a stupid phrase, because making assumptions based on a strong theory happen all the time.  This is easily resolved.  Of the people here who said their campaigns never finished because of people quitting, moving away, or got bored, did you reach high level game play before this happened?

'Untested assumption' != 'strong theory.'

The high level D&D campaigns I ran or played in - that's three campaigns, two of 1e AD&D and one of 3e, that reached at least 10th level on average after starting at first level - ended because of outside pressures, not because of what happened in game.

And there's the Traveller example as well, so that's four.

Quote from: Black Vulmea;728041'Untested assumption' != 'strong theory.'

The high level D&D campaigns I ran or played in - that's three campaigns, two of 1e AD&D and one of 3e, that reached at least 10th level on average after starting at first level - ended because of outside pressures, not because of what happened in game.

And there's the Traveller example as well, so that's four.

I can assume that tomorrow won't reach 70 degrees.  I haven't tested this, but it's based on what a reasonable person can assume.

oh, and 10th level isn't high level play.  I swear, sometimes it seems you have to argue over the most minor things just to argue.