Quote from: J ArcaneI basically hate "canon".  I hate the whole idea of it, and I think it's probably one of the most poisonous behaviors in fandom, especially in a roleplaying game.  Maybe it's from being such a big fan of Doctor Who, a show which contradicts itself and twists any sense of continuity or canon to the point of breakage so many times that you'd pretty much have to be insane to try the kind of anal-retentive over-analysis that some fandoms seem to crave (which sort of explains Outpost Gallifrey . . .)

Doctor Who is a great example, one which I use often when describing to players how I'll run with a setting. It's a simple maxim-- Canon is anything that hasn't been contradicted yet. I make it clear that my interpretation of the setting will supersede any and all prior publications, if need be.

That said I always try to involve the players in the process. If they have a cool theory or a different spin on how some aspect of the world works then I'll try to incorporate it. Shared creativity makes change a much easier pill to swallow, and gives the group a sense of it being something that belongs to the entire group rather than one mans indiosyncratic take on things.

If players find that too much to stomach then they're welcome to continue masturbating over Irrelevant Expanded Spinoff Novel #872, as long as they don't do it at my table.


Nice to see the the site back up again, btw.

I've been known to jack around with canon. I don't take a lot of crap for it, because I run a fun game and because the canon fanatics stay away from me. It's slightly unfortunate, because there are some canon I love. The "Star Fleet"--as opposed to "Star Trek" canon is a lot of fun in my opinion, for instance.  I won't get a lot of players for such worlds, because they feel--rightly or wrongly--that I won't respect their conceptions of the setting.

I'm running Star Wars at the moment, and I'm trying to behave myself--respecting the players, yet mixing it up enough to be fun.

Quote from: RPGPunditCanon fanatics suck ass. And yes, of the games I enjoy they most commonly come up in the Forgotten Realms or Star Wars.  What's worse, they're "Obscure Canon" fanatics, that claim that if you don't do things exactly as they were detailed in Stupid Licensed Novel #3478 you are somehow not doing it right.

Yeah, well I have little respect for EU and none for FR novels. Though the chances of me running in the FR again are pretty close to nil, that latter is pretty much irrelevant to me.

In Star Wars, EU novels regularly contradict each other and any big details tended to get smashed by the release of new movies. When running SW, my general attitude is that EU is a great source of ideas, but nothing therefrom is considered to have really happened in the Caesar-SW-Galaxy unless I explicitly mention it has. Only stuff in the movies can generally be assumed to be canon (and that's less that absolute. Had did shoot first. )

I'm much less of a SW freak than some. It's a great series, but I see no need to devour every novel or collect every book about it. It's just one good movie series (well, the original) out of many. I don't memorize the setting with slavish devotion. I recently purchased the Star Wars Complete Visual Dictionary. Next time I run SW, I will probably assume (and let the players know) that material therein can be assumed to be true, all else is fair game.

One EU bit I explicitly throw out: After the events of RotJ, Boba Fett is deader than a doornail.

I had this problem in an Exalted game I ran. I called it "fluff lawyering."

I solved it with this one line:

   Him: That doesn't make any sense because all Solars were killed during the great Contagion.

Me: Oh yeah? Which book was that in?

Him: It's in the core book near the beg...

Me: Well I guess the book was WRONG.

That worked very well. I suggest everyone try it.

"Canon" is like any other background, it gives you a common foundation, whether in discussions, writing or gaming. It's a useful tool, nothing more. If it doesn't help you, discard it. But it's usually polite to inform your fellow players (or readers), that you won't be following canon, so they don't have expectations that go that far.

As so often, I found that a little bit of etiquette helps a lot. I've never been a fan of the "screaming argument" school of social interaction.

I generally drive them nuts, and they end up not lasting long in our group.

I have a tiered approach to this problem;
 
1. I generally don't run games in an established world, though I run plenty of games "inspired" by a setting
 
2. If I do run a game in an established setting, it is one that I'm pretty familiar with (or more familiar than the rest of the group).
 
3. I try and restrict canon for the purposes of the game.  For example, as far as I'm concerned, canon for Star Wars is the original three movies and nothing else.  Third party material can certainly inspire my game, but it isn't automatically canon.
 
4. I try not to play with jackasses.

I homebrew. If I don't homebrew, I try to set my game in a less-developed corner of the world to avoid this problem (for example, if I were to run 2nd ed. FR, I'd set it in Sembia). I try to choose worlds that have a preponderance of appealing features rather than ones I'm going to have to fight with every step of the way.

The last time I tried to run a STAR TREK game I just said NO to the guy who kept asking if such & such paperback book was valid in my game.  That NO was said in a firm enough voice that he also knew not to argue shit with me.

 This is making me remember what crappy players most gung-ho STAR TREK fans are. Oy!! They are annoying . Give me a "casual" TREK fan/but good gamer any day of the week over the canonistas.

- Ed C.

Quote from: KoltarThe last time I tried to ruin a STAR TREK game. . .

That was a typo, right?

I left the Greytalk list because of the Canon fanatics. Its almost impossible to actually discuss your own version of a game (any game/gameworld) world because some gormless wonder will always jack the thread with whines of "Its not Canon".

I like how the Kenzer guys handled the world of Aldrazar (or Garweeze Wurld) for HackMaster. Basically, every GM's campaign is simply an alternate world/parallel universe/"Shadow" (in the Amber sense) of the original HM campaign world. Canon is thus pretty much whatever the GM says it is. It's written right into the rules, so it pretty much heads off any potential canon arguments.

I've never really had any problems with canon in any game I've ever played. Everyone pretty much assumed and accepted that the setting would be tweaked to the GM's taste. They might ask about this or that bit of canon, but it was never an argument or demand, and besides, the GM usually stated right off how his campaign would veer from canon. That's probably the most important bit right there - just outline right from the start what is or isn't "canon" in your own version of the setting. Players can't read minds, and need to be informed of changes at the beginning.

Quote from: RockViperI left the Greytalk list because of the Canon fanatics. Its almost impossible to actually discuss your own version of a game (any game/gameworld) world because some gormless wonder will always jack the thread with whines of "Its not Canon".

FR "fans" are even worse I think. I remember  stumbling into a FR ideas discussion sometime back and posted some ideas for a low magic FR campaign I intended to run. I had enjoyed some of the characters I had read about in one or two novels and wished to incorporate them in my campaign.

Jeebus, the reactions....first the patronizing explaining as to why my ideas didn't fit in FR, then it progressed to "my ignorance of the setting" and finally the "why the hell don't you use a homebrew if you wanted to change things" posts.

Regards,
David R

The FR list was a pain before 3E, but it became a canon madhouse after its release and still is even though 3E totally trashed and then took a huge flaming dump on previous FR canon. :rolleyes:  

Quote from: David RFR "fans" are even worse I think. I remember  stumbling into a FR ideas discussion sometime back and posted some ideas for a low magic FR campaign I intended to run. I had enjoyed some of the characters I had read about in one or two novels and wished to incorporate them in my campaign.

Jeebus, the reactions....first the patronizing explaining as to why my ideas didn't fit in FR, then it progressed to "my ignorance of the setting" and finally the "why the hell don't you use a homebrew if you wanted to change things" posts.

Regards,
David R

The Traveller nuts have a very handy abbreviation known as IMTU.  That stands for In My Traveller Universe.  It is used thusly:  "We can all agree that the canon says X, Y, and Z, but IMTU it so happens that A, B, and C are true."