Quote from: Klava on October 11, 2024, 07:50:18 AMyeah...
too bad cinematics is all there is to it. the game writing is all typical mmo bs - bland and aimed at its 12yo audience. plays fine mechanically, though.
now, its spiritual predecessors - KOTOR games - are very good imo, especially the 2nd one. might be worthy of pilfering some ideas from.

Really? The Sith Warrior and especially the Imperial Agent stories were absolute bangers (the Jedi Consular was ass). But again you'd have to play it context with a crew of friends for maximum impact. EVEN THEN - it's lightyears beyond modern Star Wars. And the setting is a perfect sandbox for a GM worth their salt to go hog wild without the burden of modern Star Wars and the Skywalker anchor.

Quote from: tenbones on October 14, 2024, 06:48:15 PM

Quote from: Klava on October 11, 2024, 07:50:18 AMyeah...
too bad cinematics is all there is to it. the game writing is all typical mmo bs - bland and aimed at its 12yo audience. plays fine mechanically, though.
now, its spiritual predecessors - KOTOR games - are very good imo, especially the 2nd one. might be worthy of pilfering some ideas from.

Really? The Sith Warrior and especially the Imperial Agent stories were absolute bangers (the Jedi Consular was ass). But again you'd have to play it context with a crew of friends for maximum impact.

well, i guess i'm kinda stuck comparing it to KOTOR, which it claims to be a spiritual successor to - it fails miserably in that regard. i agree on warrior and agent stories - on their own merits, those were okay, yes. agents' is the only one i could stomach going "dark side" for though - the rest "evil paths" in that game are like role-playing a 12yo edgelord. i blame target audience >_>. light side sith warrior (yeah, i know) is surprisingly decent though.

QuoteEVEN THEN - it's lightyears beyond modern Star Wars. And the setting is a perfect sandbox for a GM worth their salt to go hog wild without the burden of modern Star Wars and the Skywalker anchor.

oh, i do agree with that^, yes sir. still, if one's to pilfer from any crpg for a star wars game in the old republic setting, original KOTOR games should come first imo.

Yeah I don't particularly care specifically about SWOTOR/KOTOR  in terms of following the stories themselves, though they are superb (and for those reading this that don't know - KOTOR is 300-years *before* SWTOR). All of those events in the games matter in terms of specific "big picture" stuff.

What is most important is the setting as a sandbox for that era. It's absolutely massive. Those games push very philosophies of the Jedi and Sith to their limits, even recapitulating themselves back into one another which creates very strong arguments for the misapprehensions that people have about the Force. It's exactly what you all think it is - but it's the human nature element that fucks it all up. For those that give a crap, that's all pure RP grist for the mill.

But the era post-KOTOR which they call The Great Cold War which sets a massive stage for all kinds of possibilities, where the Sith Empire has taken half the galaxy, the Old Republic teeters and recoils while trying to muster its strength and in between them is a vast "border" where both sides secretly vie for control. It's packed with tension. As a GM one only needs to put their finger on the map, and pick a "theme" of what's the big issue with the backdrop being Imperial/Republic influence as they consolidate their forces for the inevitable hot war.

You can totally ignore it. You can keep things totally wide open, exploration is totally a thing where your players are looking for new hyperspace routes which can find just about anything. There are civilizations and even entire empires - the Chiss Ascendancy for instance - which you can campaign in (The Chiss are the blue-skinned near-humans that Grand Admiral Thrawn comes from. They are the *only* culture to fight the Empire to a standstill despite being massively smaller).

There are all the galactic secrets of KOTOR and SWTOR - the Starforge, the elder races and their fallen artifacts which imply full-blown Cthulhu mythos fare. There are the horrors of the Rak Ghoul (basically werewolf zombies) infestation. The list goes on and on. Far beyond just the Empire/Republic war. Which is kind of the point. All of that stuff can just be a backdrop, the beauty of the Cold War is that it lets your campaign breathe on its own where you can let your game be whatever you want it to be.

very good, tenbones. i couldn't agree more.
@ anyone who wants their star wars game detached from everything that's been done to ruin the franchise since original trilogy - you can't go wrong with the old republic games' stuff, imo.

SWTOR is a good setting for one reason.

There are thousands of Jedi vs Thousands of Sith.

One of the problems of Star Wars, even before Disney, was the rule of two.  There are only two bad guys. 

Even actual Star Wars then has to break this rule for storytelling. 

A rule of two.  Let's count.

1.  Darth Sidious
2.  Darth Tyranous/Count Dukuu

Uh. 

3.  Asajj Ventress
4.  Savage Opress
5.  The Night Sisters
6.  Darth Mail (because being cut in half and falling a thousand feet into a power reactor is just a boo-boo).
7.  Darth Vader

8-19.  The dozen or so Inqusitors

Quote from: weirdguy564 on October 17, 2024, 04:07:38 PMSWOTOR is a good setting for one reason.

There are thousands of Jedi vs Thousands of Sith.

One of the problems of Star Wars, even before Disney, was the rule of two.  There are only two bad guys. 

Even actual Star Wars then has to break this rule for storytelling. 

A rule of two.  Let's count.

1.  Darth Sidious
2.  Darth Tyranous/Count Dukuu

Uh.   

3.  Asajj Ventress
4.  Savage Opress
5.  The Night Sisters
6.  Darth Mail (because being cut in half and falling a thousand feet into a power reactor is just a boo-boo).
7.  Darth Vader

8-19.  The dozen or so Inqusitors

The Rule of Two is a great thing; if you're George Lucas looking to make a second trilogy (and only a second trilogy) that only needs maybe 6-7 hours of material.

It was never intended to be an RPG or MMO or countless spin-off series. Which is why everything beyond the first six films is basically an asspull to try and turn something never meant to be looked at too closely into a coherent setting.

Some do it better than others and for RPG sandboxing I'd say SWTOR is probably the best you'll find for mixing familiar Star Wars elements into something with the breadth and depth you'd need for regular campaigns to be held in it.

Frankly, in the broadest sense, each of the eight class stories (plus Fallen Empire/Eternal Throne) with their set of five companions could be the starting point for an extended campaign... particularly the first arc of each class story (many of the second and third arcs fall considerably short).

Right! that's why for gaming purposes, The Old Republic and it's immense amount of lore and time-scale gives you more Star Wars than you could possibly shake a gaffi-stick at. Pick an era, pick a starting point, and start tossing dice. There is so much potential conflict and literally anything/everything you'd have in modern Lucas-era/EU can be found in much deeper deposits in the Old Republic era.

Nothing is flaccid and failing. The Hutts? Massive political powers in their own right. The Sith Empire? Ungodly powerful and ruthless - far far more coherent than modern-era Star Wars. Jedi? Tons of lore, secrets, and history (not all of it good - but certainly good-intentioned) same with the Sith. Cosmic horrors, ancient races that predate the technology of the Empire and Republic. Corporations with powermad schemes. Mandalorian golden ages. Actually bounty hunter cultures and traditions. Tons of cool cultures that are independent of the Empire/Republic. As much politics and skullduggery as you can handle. Pirates!! You can even get really "cyberpunk" with it - crime cartels outside of the Hutts, abound. Some specializing in slicing (and Star Wars does that analog hacking so you have to do your techie-shit on and in the premises), assassination and everything in-between.

Old Republic really is the best thing for Star Wars gaming.