The first question is if habitat areas would exist and be maintained.  
If so how big would they need to be to be stable with minimal maintenance?

I'm thinking of a slowly spinning cylinder with a center core that contains the light, heat and water source.  Artificial gravity will not be available.

How many people would be living verses the number in cold sleep?  
Would only the "Crew" remain active and if so, how many for a stable population?
If most of the ship is automated and anything needed can be assembled from raw materials, what are the crew doing awake?
( I assume improving the recycle and assembly processers. Also studying the gene manipulation needed for terriforming new worlds.)

Would the cold sleepers be volunteers or "undesirables"?

Should crew food production be separate from the habitat areas or part of them?

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I do have my own opinions and am progressing with them however, if they do not align well with general opinon, getting and retaining players will be more difficult.
Hope to improve the odds with feedback from others.
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Back in the early or mid-1980s I think ANALOG magazine had a straight hard science article that explored this very topic. Don't ask me the specific issue, I just have a vague memory of reading the article.

Does ANALOG have a searcable database on the web or CD-ROM?


I read a LOT of ANALOG and F&SF when I was younger. The 'ol photographic memory doesn't always kick in perfectly on stuff like this.

- Ed C.

it really depends on how many people-sicles you're moving.

you'd definitely need a handful of folks active, for basic troubleshooting.  maybe not all at once, but periodically thaw 3 or 5 (always an odd number in case of disputes) to check things over.  

i doubt anyone would send "undesirables" out this way.  why waste the money?    

you'd probably keep the food production area with the habitation.  no sense in keeping them apart.  probably powerplant & engines in the back, sensors in the front, and the habitat & frozens in the heavily shielded middle.

Quote from: KoltarBack in the early or mid-1980s I think ANALOG magazine had a straight hard science article that explored this very topic.

- Ed C.

Kalpana One pdf has good info for a non-traveling space colony size.
The main problem with increasing size is the energy needed to get it up to speed.

I think that 5 miles long and 1 mile in diameter is a good size but was looking for other opinions.
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how big were the FTL (lighthuggers?) ships in revelation space et al?  they seemed plenty big.

something the size of an aircraft carrier, at least.  unless you going to just replicate everything with nanobots or the like when you get there, then you could make it smaller, i guess.

Is it for a game where you'll need exact measurements? If so I'd go with the 5x1m you mentioned. If not, just run it as a string of locations and don't worry too much about exactly how far the galley is from the main thruster banks.

Quote from: James McMurrayIs it for a game where you'll need exact measurements? If so I'd go with the 5x1m you mentioned. If not, just run it as a string of locations and don't worry too much about exactly how far the galley is from the main thruster banks.

That has been an impuse that has occured.
I was wanting to have a general impression of size and location but as a string of locations or a Scene Change series, independent maps may be the best idea yet.
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The two best references I can think of on this subject are the books Colonies in Space by TA Heppenheimer and The Starflight Handbook: A Pioneer's Guide to Interstellar Travel by Eugene Mallove and Gregory Matloff. Both are written with the layman in mind and The Starflight Handbook has enough math in it to make a good reference.

This depends on so many factors that the size ranges all over!

How many people?

FTL or STL?

Fusion? M/AM? What is the efficiency?

What is the availability and quality of cold sleep/stasis?

What  is the availability of artificial wombs?

See what I mean?

Here's an example:
In StarCluster, the colony ships sent out from earth before the solar system and everything around it was destroyed were fusion slowboats, carrying 20,000 to 40,000 people. The fusion efficiency improved over the century and a half the colony ships were launched such that the later ships launched were the first to arrive - over 500 years since the last one launched became the first to arrive, the first few launched have still not gotten to the Cluster.

Cold Sleep is rudimentary - the sleepers aging 1 year for every thirty years asleep - thus over long voyages, the passengers need to be awake enough to breed, like the 1200 to 2000 year voyage to the Cluster. On short voyages, like to stars within 20 ly or so, this shouldn't be a problem, and the passengers can sleep through. The crew on short voyages would have to stay awake in shifts of several years duration. This would apply to any animals carried as well. If artificial wombs were available, most "passengers" might be frozen fertilized eggs. Use of host mothers would allow a percentage of "passengers" to be stored as fertilized eggs.

The standard ships - for 20,000 colonists - are 1 km in diameter and 5 km long. The vast majority of that - some 98% by mass - is tankage and engines. The habitable section is a spoked torus rotating on an axle at the front of the ship, furthest away from the radiation. Anything not necessary for life support would be carried in zero gravity compartments near the torus. The axle doubles as a docking spur for shuttles.

The ship carries enough food to feed the passengers for a year, plus seeds. Short-lived animals are carried awake all the way, longer lived animals have periods of cold sleep. Hydroponic gardens are maintained for food and to help freshen the air.

The 20,000 colonist figure was arrived at to maintain maximum genetic variation, assuming no further ships are coming. Smaller ships with smaller numbers of passengers could be used for colonies that would have traffic back and forth to earth. A minimum of 500 people is advised.

Most of the machinery carried is in the form of machine tools rather than finished goods. These machine tools produce the necessary parts from raw stock. Most colonists will use hand tools and draft animals rather than modern vehicles and machinery. Animals are self-replicating, and hand tools are easily built and maintained. It would be some generations before a fair amount of technology is maintainable. For this, the more colonists available the better, to encourage division of labor and specialization.

I could go on for pages...

-clash

Quote from: flyingmiceThe standard ships - for 20,000 colonists - are 1 km in diameter and 5 km long. The vast majority of that - some 98% by mass - is tankage and engines. The habitable section is a spoked torus rotating on an axle at the front of the ship, furthest away from the radiation. Anything not necessary for life support would be carried in zero gravity compartments near the torus. The axle doubles as a docking spur for shuttles.

I had pretty much settled on the 1km x 5km size as a rotating barrel with a thin central core where the longitudinal quadrant walls meet.

Quote from: flyingmiceThe 20,000 colonist figure was arrived at to maintain maximum genetic variation, assuming no further ships are coming. Smaller ships with smaller numbers of passengers could be used for colonies that would have traffic back and forth to earth. A minimum of 500 people is advised.

Most of the machinery carried is in the form of machine tools rather than finished goods. These machine tools produce the necessary parts from raw stock. Most colonists will use hand tools and draft animals rather than modern vehicles and machinery. Animals are self-replicating, and hand tools are easily built and maintained. It would be some generations before a fair amount of technology is maintainable. For this, the more colonists available the better, to encourage division of labor and specialization.

I could go on for pages...

-clash

I for one would be interested however, my intent is a person update to Metamorphosis Alpha.

The use of nannite gene manipulation allows life extension so the "turn over" in crew is lessened. Digital replication of organisms increases the varity available to the colony.  

Room to study experimental lifeforms designed for the new world is also needed.
Why, yes, something will go horrorably wrong ...
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With these ideas and Mythic's "Create as you go"  play style, I'm going to give it a try.
Metamrophosis Beta
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