The only way this would be interesting, would be to find people discussing games that you like. Otherwise, it's kinda dull.

Quote from: Mistwell;694913... you cannot even bother to read the thing before talking about it?

Because miley cyrus twerking discussions have more substance? I'm not sorry I confounded a list from one page on the site to a pie chart on another, this:

hottest games being talked about right now?

Is the measure of an echo chamber; as an actual GM and player, I am more interested in what games are being played. Maybe if you took some time off from being an internet toughguy and looked here:

http://www.enworld.org/forum/content.php?1272-What-Games-People-Are-Talking-About-A-Pie-Chart

You might realize there is more going on.

Quote from: Ladybird;694916The only way this would be interesting, would be to find people discussing games that you like. Otherwise, it's kinda dull.

But don't you see! Popularity contests are totally awesome! Now I can use the bandwagon fallacy to further justify my sense that my choice of games are superior!

Quote from: Mistwell;694912It's awesome when people don't read something at all, make bold declarations about it, and then pat themselves on the back for a work of sheer idiocy well done.

Seriously, even the barest of glances at it would have told you what you just said was false.  You couldn't even click the thing you were commenting on.  Were you representative of this board, others could read posts like yours and conclude this board is full of mouth breathing morons.

Translation: I said something mean about 4e.

Here he comes to save the day!!!

So Enworld puts together an industry-wide web-analytics tool, tracking what exactly, sheer number of word mentions?  By that standard Dungeon World is currently the "hottest game on theRPGsite".

It would have been better sticking to EnWorld, at least then it would have actually been correct and meant something, even if limited.  When someone from Google or any other place worthwhile decides to analyze G+ traffic, let me know.

Quote from: J Arcane;694919But don't you see! Popularity contests are totally awesome! Now I can use the bandwagon fallacy to further justify my sense that my choice of games are superior!

You know, you might be on to something. I could start intentionally playing only the least-discussed games, to build up totally loads of HYPER INDIE CONNOISSEUR cred amongst the other person who plays them, so I could... so I can... well, it'll let me... hmm. I'll get back to you when I work out what the next step between here and profit is.

actually, for top indie cred, you'd have to stop playing a game whenever anyone heard of it. which would make putting together a group, somewhat tricky.

Quote from: dragoner;694918Because miley cyrus twerking discussions have more substance? I'm not sorry I confounded a list from one page on the site to a pie chart on another, this:

hottest games being talked about right now?

Is the measure of an echo chamber; as an actual GM and player, I am more interested in what games are being played. Maybe if you took some time off from being an internet toughguy and looked here:

http://www.enworld.org/forum/content.php?1272-What-Games-People-Are-Talking-About-A-Pie-Chart

You might realize there is more going on.

I know precisely what it's about, as I've been talking to Morrus about it this last week over at CM.  I'm trying to explain it's not an echo chamber.  And echo chamber implies it's exclusionary and focused on just a particular smaller set of interests and voices that feeds back on itself.  But that's not accurate - as the scope of it's measurement is so far beyond a small set as to be laughable.  The scope of its measurement includes basically all of Reddit RPG discussions, 1000+ blogs at this point, every major and most minor boards, etc.. are you really trying to tell me that's all one massive echo chamber? This is likely the largest sampling of RPG fans ever accomplished.  Dismissing it as a meaningless echo chamber just sounds like bitterness to me.

Certainly if you're going to dismiss a sample size that large as an echo chamber, I never want to see one of you fuckers ever defending this board as not an echo chamber again.

Quote from: CRKrueger;694925Translation: I said something mean about 4e.

Here he comes to save the day!!!

Lolwut? Wow, you're out of touch mang.  I've been accused of being a 4e hater lately.  I'm not the 5e fanboi according to most, and a certified oldtimer to others.  Seriously, this topic has nothing at all to do with a particular game, and if anything, I think I'm more negative about 4e than any other edition of D&D at the moment.

QuoteSo Enworld puts together an industry-wide web-analytics tool, tracking what exactly, sheer number of word mentions?  By that standard Dungeon World is currently the "hottest game on theRPGsite".

It is what it says it is.  You can pretend it's claiming to be about something else and then bash it for not really being about that thing, but that's almost as stupid as you not reading it to begin with.  It's not claiming to measure anything other than what it claims to measure, which is "what people are talking about".  That's it.  Conclusions are left to others to discuss or not.  It's explicitly not measuring sales data, for example.

BTW, he was asked specifically what most of the content about DungeonWorld was about, and he said the majority of DW discussion was "whether or not Dungeon World should be called a D&D variant. Just that.".

QuoteIt would have been better sticking to EnWorld, at least then it would have actually been correct and meant something, even if limited.  When someone from Google or any other place worthwhile decides to analyze G+ traffic, let me know.

I believe it is analyzing G+ traffic.  It's also tracking most RPG-related things that can feed trough an RSS reader of some sort.

IF you guys want to make sure some set of sites is included in the analysis, just make up a list of them and I will ask Morrus if they are currently included, and if not then whether he could add them.  He's totally open to adding more, as his intent is to capture as large a section of TRPG discussion on the internet as possible, and to make it as accurate as possible, EXCEPT for company websites.

So, if most of the DW traffic is whether or not it is a D&D variant, and most of the SIFRP traffic is how to create alternate timelines to not mess with Martin's plot, I'm not sure exactly how useful this data is?

It's like finding out whether Snookie and Jwowowow are trending up or down compared to Miley Cyrus's left tit.

We've had a thousand-page shitfest on "Colonial, Racist, D&D" - so?

I'm just not getting what Morris is up to.  If he's planning on selling the data, go him?  If not, why bother?  Is this a testrun of methodology leading later to more meaningful analysis?

It almost sounds like "let's take the concept of there is no bad publicity and who cares about signal/noise ratio" - you know, what ruins analysis and discussion of oh, just about everything else in life, and apply it to this hobby.

Quote from: Mistwell;694930Certainly if you're going to dismiss a sample size that large as an echo chamber...

"Like minded people gather to discuss their common interests ...", all forums, etc.; are echo chambers to an extent. I am leery of the 250,000 users number as well, where I have a feeling it is far less.

However, from a business standpoint, what does the survey actually suggest, and more importantly, how does it express revenue? For example, the raw figures I pulled from OP, of 14,000 for 4e, 9,000 for 3.5, and 9,000 for Pathfinder, that means a gross revenue for OP of $1,280,000; even though due to various factors it is probably only close to one fifth of that at $250,000. Still nothing to sneer at, and it represents that there is a revenue stream to try to get a part of. In marketing, and general business strategy, I can see plenty of opportunities, for businesses such as OP and others; but if this is just about if D&D is the dominant force, I would say yes, but I don't have a dog in that fight.

Quote from: CRKrueger;694937So, if most of the DW traffic is whether or not it is a D&D variant, and most of the SIFRP traffic is how to create alternate timelines to not mess with Martin's plot, I'm not sure exactly how useful this data is?

It entirely depends on what your interests are.  I'm pretty sure it's not a CRKrueger-centric world, so it may well not be of interest to you but is interesting to others.

QuoteIt's like finding out whether Snookie and Jwowowow are trending up or down compared to Miley Cyrus's left tit.

To some people, that information is highly useful, and to others like yourself apparently it is not.

QuoteWe've had a thousand-page shitfest on "Colonial, Racist, D&D" - so?

This is more "it's not about something I am interested in"?

QuoteI'm just not getting what Morris is up to.  If he's planning on selling the data, go him?  If not, why bother?  Is this a testrun of methodology leading later to more meaningful analysis?

For a message board operator, what people are talking about the most is useful.  Later, I believe he will use the data he is gathering to run a large survey.  

QuoteIt almost sounds like "let's take the concept of there is no bad publicity and who cares about signal/noise ratio" - you know, what ruins analysis and discussion of oh, just about everything else in life, and apply it to this hobby.

How is this publicity of any sort? And, what are you whining about with life being ruined by information?

Quote from: dragoner;694960"Like minded people gather to discuss their common interests ...", all forums, etc.; are echo chambers to an extent. I am leery of the 250,000 users number as well, where I have a feeling it is far less.

I think he's counting unique user names in posts over a relatively short period of time. Obviously some will overlap as some people choose different handles at different forums.  But I don't think it's much overlap.

Quote from: Mistwell;694964How is this publicity of any sort? And, what are you whining about with life being ruined by information?

How is it publicity of any sort?  He's currently advertising his list as the "hottest games list" in other words, Hey everybody, these are the games most people are talking about.  Has it been used in an ad yet? No, at least not by anyone other then Morris, but I'm sure it's coming.  That's what this information is typically used for.

The idea of a "hottest list" based on sheer number of threads or topics means there is no idea of whether the "hotness" is positive or negative, whether it is content vs. edition wars, in other words, information completely without context, exactly the sort of "who's up, who's down, who's hot, who's not, what's trending, what's oh so last week" aspect of fast food culture bereft of any meaning other then something to plug into marketing and ad calculations or to tag along because you want to be "in".  

A lawyer in LA needs this explained to him? Oh wait, nevermind. :rotfl:

I found it interesting mostly for two reasons.  One, it broke my expectations as to the likely popularity of D&D 4E.  The survey being done by EN World made it seem less likely that this was all bias due to who connects to that forum.  But the other point was to see just how small the internet footprint is for a lot of non-D&D games.  I had noticed this when I tried to find blogs on Savage Worlds or GURPS -- they were not non-existent but the different in volume is quite notable compared with D&D (and derivatives).  

Games like Dragon Age end up looking like rounding errors . . .

Pretty interesting.  The methodology excludes industry boards?  Wonder why?

Quote from: Old One Eye;695307Pretty interesting.  The methodology excludes industry boards?  Wonder why?

Oops.  I should have taken some Mistwellian advice and read what that Morrus guy had to say about it.  Not technically feasible for him.  Very fair.