Never thought I'd have cause to post on this side of the forum again, I don't have a regular group any more and little free time besides other hobbies.

However, my kids are all 8+ nowadays, avid readers and boardgamers and are currently obsessed with Diablo 3. When I told them about PnP RPGs, their minds were blown. Somehow, I've been talked into running a game or two over the Christmas holidays.

I like the underlying simplicity of ACKS (or B/X if you prefer, they're ultimately similar) when compared to 3.x/4E/5E, not least because I hacked it very successfully for a historical game a few years back (see my sig). All the domains-type support is good for a GM who likes having a credible economy/society underpinning what's going on. It won't be dungeoneering, that bores me to tears.

I have two pressing issues at the moment. Firstly, they want fantasy, which means magic. So I'm going to need to do some retrofitting and kitbashing to get a desired result, that being that I want to bin the arcane-divine dichotomy. Magic is magic, whether you're healing or blasting. Tempted to adapt something like the 4E system of utility/at-will powers, encounter powers and daily powers, which is more like the "cooldown" mechanic they're already used to.

The second one is classes. I'm not tracking XP, one of my standard hacks is always to equalise the XP budget of the classes so they're the same, and everyone levels when I say so, to remove yet another set of things to track besides loot. But what I want to do here is bin the list of a dozen or so specialised/thematic ones, and instead use a version of the Generic Classes and let them multiclass to build the character they want. Which again will require a bit of tinkering on my part to convert a more traditional class system into a modular one.

Has anyone done any of these things already for B/X?

Running for kids is a blast.  Some of my best moments have been behind the screen running for kids.  Here's a few tips from my own experience.

First, I recommend you get a copy of XDM by Tracy Hickman.  I think this is exactly what you're looking for.

Second, get a cheap color printer and some card stock for it.  Print out monsters to use in combat and give them to the kid who gets the finishing blow. 

Third, get yourself a bunch of 3x5 index cards.  Write down any gear or loot you plan to have them find and just hand them the cards for the stuff they get.  They will trade them between session, just let them. 

Ask your magic users what four spells they want and then you decide how much damage they are or how long they last.  Write them down on those 3x5 cards for them.  Know that neither you nor they are going to track spell slots, mana, or anything else so adjust all spells for at will use.

Go all out.  The kids want the fantastic so give it to them.  It's not a tavern in a village, it's a tea house in a giant mushroom in a magic forest.  Tea is served by giant rainbow colored butterfly that float over to the table with a tea pot to refill cups.

Finally, ham it up.  Kids don't care if it's cringe, they are having fun playing make believe with their dad.  Go nuts and have a good time.

Quote from: Kiero on November 24, 2023, 02:56:13 PM
Never thought I'd have cause to post on this side of the forum again, I don't have a regular group any more and little free time besides other hobbies.

What's the other side you're on these days?

Quote from: Kiero on November 24, 2023, 02:56:13 PMHas anyone done any of these things already for B/X?

The closest thing I can think of is True 20, which deletes XP tracking and uses a spin on the three generic classes (adept, expert, warrior.) It's too heavy for your concept, but there may be some ideas there.

Have you seen Basic Fantasy? It's a nice simple B/X variant. And a gold mine for B/X house rules. Scroll down to "Supplements: Additional and Alternate Rules"

https://basicfantasy.org/downloads.html

Quote from: Kiero on November 24, 2023, 02:56:13 PM
Has anyone done any of these things already for B/X?

I use Knave 1E as a basis for a stripped down modular BX adjacent rule set. I adapted Heroes of Fantasy book of monsters, treasures, and alchemy/magic crafting. I added Rob Conley's town and fief rules. Then added a curated set of price lists inspired by C&S 2E, Harn, and ACKs. I used Bucky Blackball's Dark Dungeon X to flesh out the remaining gaps. DDX is released into the public domain. My other sources are licensed as CC BY as are all my adaptions and additions.

We are five sessions into the rules play test and so far my players seem to really like it.

All the rules are free under the Downloads section of:

https://www.goatonthetrollbridge.com/

I second BFRPG, the new version is free, cool, and easy.

Also Knave.

ACKS is not a simple sustem IMO, and I feel Generic Classes are not ideal for beginners (but that's just me).

If you want to go "point buy", here is one suggestion:

https://methodsetmadness.blogspot.com/2023/10/point-buy-d-osr.html

Other than that, I wrote a couple of books addressing especially B/X spellcasting and feats, which are in the BF sale and might be useful:

https://preview.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397412/Alternate-Magic-OSR
https://preview.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/407233/Old-School-Feats-OSR

The second one suggests unifying XP tables:

If you prefer unified XP tables, we recommend using the magic-user table for all classes, adding a few extra feats for Clerics, Thieves and Fighters. Thieves also get 1d6 HP per level, like clerics. Clerics need no further enhancements. This changes some assumptions but is still balanced in my opinion.

These "few extra feats" are not dissimilar to the numbers suggested by Generic Classes (on further reflection, I think clerics should use fewer feats like MU).

Also includes feats such as :

12.   White Magic. You can learn cleric spells as if they were Magic-user spells. You still need to learn them and write them down in your grimoire as usual (unlike the cleric).

All that said, for 8-yo I'd use something simpler (like B/X or BFRPG) and maybe add crunch as they go.

Quote from: BadApple on November 24, 2023, 03:24:39 PM
Running for kids is a blast.  Some of my best moments have been behind the screen running for kids.  Here's a few tips from my own experience.

First, I recommend you get a copy of XDM by Tracy Hickman.  I think this is exactly what you're looking for.

Second, get a cheap color printer and some card stock for it.  Print out monsters to use in combat and give them to the kid who gets the finishing blow. 

Third, get yourself a bunch of 3x5 index cards.  Write down any gear or loot you plan to have them find and just hand them the cards for the stuff they get.  They will trade them between session, just let them. 

Ask your magic users what four spells they want and then you decide how much damage they are or how long they last.  Write them down on those 3x5 cards for them.  Know that neither you nor they are going to track spell slots, mana, or anything else so adjust all spells for at will use.

Go all out.  The kids want the fantastic so give it to them.  It's not a tavern in a village, it's a tea house in a giant mushroom in a magic forest.  Tea is served by giant rainbow colored butterfly that float over to the table with a tea pot to refill cups.

Finally, ham it up.  Kids don't care if it's cringe, they are having fun playing make believe with their dad.  Go nuts and have a good time.

I appreciate this, if my kids were younger, a lot of this would have been good advice. My youngest is 8, my eldest is 13. Though hamming it up is always called for, that's dad license.

As it stands, they've been listening to me talking about history and politics of the real world too much, I think they'd laugh off a genuinely fantastical setting. Not sure I'd be up to running it, either.

Good call on use of index cards, though. Anything to make it a more tactile and tangible experience, rather than just being on paper is to the good.

Quote from: Aglondir on November 24, 2023, 03:31:40 PM
What's the other side you're on these days?

Pundy's Own, talking politics.

Quote from: Aglondir on November 24, 2023, 03:31:40 PM

The closest thing I can think of is True 20, which deletes XP tracking and uses a spin on the three generic classes (adept, expert, warrior.) It's too heavy for your concept, but there may be some ideas there.

Have you seen Basic Fantasy? It's a nice simple B/X variant. And a gold mine for B/X house rules. Scroll down to "Supplements: Additional and Alternate Rules"

https://basicfantasy.org/downloads.html

Yeah, the Generic Classes are spun in a similar fashion in True20. In this instance, I'll use the ACKS Companion to reverse engineer them to suit. Refreshing myself on it is a good tip.

I'd forgotten all about BFRPG, thanks for the reminder! Already found a gem there, the 0th level magic rules, which ticks a box for something I needed.

Quote from: swzl on November 24, 2023, 07:39:35 PM
I use Knave 1E as a basis for a stripped down modular BX adjacent rule set. I adapted Heroes of Fantasy book of monsters, treasures, and alchemy/magic crafting. I added Rob Conley's town and fief rules. Then added a curated set of price lists inspired by C&S 2E, Harn, and ACKs. I used Bucky Blackball's Dark Dungeon X to flesh out the remaining gaps. DDX is released into the public domain. My other sources are licensed as CC BY as are all my adaptions and additions.

We are five sessions into the rules play test and so far my players seem to really like it.

All the rules are free under the Downloads section of:

https://www.goatonthetrollbridge.com/

More grist for the mill, thanks for that. I note similar ideas to those I developed in my previous homebrew, like giving shields different defensive values against missiles and melee attacks.

Quote from: Eric Diaz on November 24, 2023, 08:32:00 PM
I second BFRPG, the new version is free, cool, and easy.

Also Knave.

ACKS is not a simple sustem IMO, and I feel Generic Classes are not ideal for beginners (but that's just me).

If you want to go "point buy", here is one suggestion:

https://methodsetmadness.blogspot.com/2023/10/point-buy-d-osr.html

Other than that, I wrote a couple of books addressing especially B/X spellcasting and feats, which are in the BF sale and might be useful:

https://preview.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397412/Alternate-Magic-OSR
https://preview.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/407233/Old-School-Feats-OSR

The second one suggests unifying XP tables:

If you prefer unified XP tables, we recommend using the magic-user table for all classes, adding a few extra feats for Clerics, Thieves and Fighters. Thieves also get 1d6 HP per level, like clerics. Clerics need no further enhancements. This changes some assumptions but is still balanced in my opinion.

These "few extra feats" are not dissimilar to the numbers suggested by Generic Classes (on further reflection, I think clerics should use fewer feats like MU).

Also includes feats such as :

12.   White Magic. You can learn cleric spells as if they were Magic-user spells. You still need to learn them and write them down in your grimoire as usual (unlike the cleric).

All that said, for 8-yo I'd use something simpler (like B/X or BFRPG) and maybe add crunch as they go.

BFRPG is a good recommendation for ideas-mining. It's a little too faithful to the source material to use as-is for me (race-as-class, all five saves, etc). Good stuff on magic, though.

I've already simplified lots of stuff in my hack of ACKS, granted I'm making it a little more complicated by adding magic back, but I think fixed classes v Generic Classes is a wash. I think point buy would just be confusing for them, not least because it means having to guess in advance what you might want. And I like the modularisation you get with only three classes, mixed and matched to taste.

A lot of character differentiation and features will be driven by Proficiencies, which do a similar thing to Feats. Again something I've already reworked to an extent to taste, so it'll be adding some magic-oriented ones.

I won't be exposing them to domain rules and the like (though my eldest was fascinated by it), the parts of ACKS I am taking have been simplified a fair bit.

I'm going to develop the hack of ACKS I started in Tyche's Favourites, with some things stolen liberally from BFRPG.

The major departure from that will be the conversion of something like the Generic Classes - a modular approach where players build their character from three building blocks, rather than following a preset class. I'm thinking to cap "normal" advancement at 6th level (with extra bennies coming at 2nd, 4th and 6th), which limits mortal magic at 3rd level. You beat armies with armies, not by being a mobile arcane artillery platform.

This also keeps things relatively grounded, a higher level Warrior is deadly against hordes of mooks (due to Cleaving), but they can still be taken down. Which encourages them to use tactics and followers, instead of thinking they're one-man armies. With a cap the spectrum between the most experience and least is relatively narrow.

7th level and above is reserved for demigod type characters, their level signifies their departure from ordinary mortal concerns. These are few and far between, with some in-world justification needed as to how this has happened.

I'm not a big fan of high magic, it offers too many easy get out of consequence free options and makes your settings look silly if they don't consider how they might impact societies. Magic items will be more limited than D&D standard (and random), each one being an heirloom/relic of a bygone age, rather than stuff you keep hold of for a bit then trade for something better.

Haven't worked out the details yet, but the arcane/divine split disappears, magic is magic. As mentioned, I've already stolen the 0th level spells from BFRPG, these might be available even to non-Adept characters with a Proficiency. Which also gives the option of "hedge magic" for 0th level NPC types.

I'm also considering something alternative to the Vancian system of spells per day by level. Possibly keep the slots notion, but 1st level spells are at-will, 2nd level hourly (basically once an encounter) and 3rd level daily. So even low level casters can spam basic attacks (which is akin to them using a regular missile weapon anyway), and higher level stuff is more limited. More casting levels means more options and more frequency. More thought needed.