Quote from: Spinachcat;523299Good article. Thank you.



When posters talk about how the hobby is so healthy without the industry, I am pretty sure that they don't actually play RPGs. Just a lot of jibba jabba with blogs, forums and PDFs, but not much dice tossing.

The industry doesn't profit in a vacuum. Games that make money are those with more players. If nobody is making money, then you can be sure that new blood isn't flowing into the hobby.

The beer money of PDF/POD publishers is the same income as the pickle lady at the farmer's market (maybe less). Nobody is calling her a powerhouse in the food industry the way that forum posters celebrate itsy bitsy publishers.

This entire post is beneath you, man.   The BNG canard is old and tired.

That said, allow me to make a generalization of my own- when you need to compare RPGs to movies, music, books, pickles, automobiles or condoms to make a point- that point is 100% pure shit.



Although I was initially skeptical, aside from Icons, I've enjoyed the stuff I've gotten from lulu this year far, far more than anything I've bought from any of the larger companies for literally decades.

Also, I play weekly.

Quote from: RPGPundit;523799You don't know what you're missing.

RPGPundit

Not much when it comes to the rules system.

The setting on the other hand has its bright spots.

Quote from: Novastar;523947Players beget more players. Word-of-mouth is the strongest recruiting tool of our hobby.

That said, if the game is not accessible, investment into the hobby is going to be pretty minimal. If you can't get the rulebook, new players quickly lose interest.

Now, the argument that a strong industry allows access to gamebooks, may not be as true as it was in years past, with a number of slick pdf and websites. The only barrier is having a computer with internet access (and a printer, for those who don't like reading text off a computer), compared to if your book/hobby store carries your favorite game book.

I agree and even the printer isn't as much of a requirement as it used to be for folks who like hard copy with Lulu and other PoD outlets.

Quote from: D-503;523936Yup, I play every week and have for a long, long time. The hobby is not the industry, and I'm not persuaded the hobby needs the industry. I'm not even necessarily persuaded the industry is a good thing for the hobby, I think it's a mixed blessing with some bits which are very good but others which are detrimental.

You could post somethign retarded from time to time so I would not have to agree with you every single fucking time, mate. You know, just for variety's sake.

I play 1-3 times a week, and industry can get fucked in the ass. This mirrors the experience of every single gamer I know. Industry is a nice commodity, not a need.

Quote from: Novastar;523947Players beget more players. Word-of-mouth is the strongest recruiting tool of our hobby.

That said, if the game is not accessible, investment into the hobby is going to be pretty minimal. If you can't get the rulebook, new players quickly lose interest.

Now, the argument that a strong industry allows access to gamebooks, may not be as true as it was in years past, with a number of slick pdf and websites. The only barrier is having a computer with internet access (and a printer, for those who don't like reading text off a computer), compared to if your book/hobby store carries your favorite game book.

I think word of mouth is the best recruiter but I also think that that is why the hobby is in decline.

There are a lot of gamers like me in their 40s who have played for years. We have a bunch of mates we have played games with for years. We have been through the cycle of going to games clubs and joining he game group and Uni and running stuff from our houses for semi random folk but now we don't have the time nor the patience for it. So we stay in our groups and play with our kids (some of my mates won't do that becuase they really think their kid being obsessed with football or something else is probably healthier for them...) but we aren't interested in spreading the word.

When I was a kid I had a coversation with someone then I went to game shop looked at all the stuff and bought a game. I think that route needs an industry. The whole auntie buys little Bobby the intro Red Box D&D game was a huge recruitment opportunity.
If ToysRus had a big D&D section with books, minis, boxed sets etc al do you all really think it would make no impact on number of players?

One of the problems of this site is that there is a tendancy to groupthink. We are by nature mainly older, mainly more old school, storygame shunning, types. I think the fact that we are all embedded in the hobby to the point of spending out free time posting on a hobby board creates by its very nature a self selecting monoculture.

I might have bought only 2 game books in the last 10 years but without the industry I wouldn't have gotten to here in the first place.

Quote from: jibbajibba;523994(some of my mates won't do that becuase they really think their kid being obsessed with football or something else is probably healthier for them...) but we aren't interested in spreading the word.

Some of my local friends do this too.

They don't encourage their kids to do activities which are "sedentary".  (But they don't actively discourage it either).

I was actually reading somewhere the other day that sporty kids are far more likely to cheat on exams and school work in general, apparently the problem is the coaches and their obsession with winning. I'm not sure how accurate that all is, but it certainly matches my experience in regards to both coaches and students in high school, university and as a TA in grad school.

Quote from: Aos;524010I was actually reading somewhere the other day that sporty kids are far more likely to cheat on exams and school work in general, apparently the problem is the coaches and their obsession with winning. I'm not sure how accurate that all is, but it certainly matches my experience in regards to both coaches and students in high school, university and as a TA in grad school.

You must mean American Sporty kids, where winning is vaulted as some sort of goal.
Here in England sports are a way for us to learn to loose gracefully, its all in the taking part old man.

Quote from: Aos;524010I was actually reading somewhere the other day that sporty kids are far more likely to cheat on exams and school work in general, apparently the problem is the coaches and their obsession with winning. I'm not sure how accurate that all is, but it certainly matches my experience in regards to both coaches and students in high school, university and as a TA in grad school.

I remember encountering numerous non-sporty types who heavily into cheating on exams and school work.  From what I remember of these individuals, most of them had very little to no interest in the particular class, and just wanted an "easy pass" with the least amount of work.  For individuals who had their eye on an ivy league university, they were after an "easy A" and extracurricular activities which looked good on their application to Harvard.

Quote from: jibbajibba;523994I might have bought only 2 game books in the last 10 years but without the industry I wouldn't have gotten to here in the first place.

I just need the books for a structured way to play.
I learned a structured way to play at recess at school too (and spent many hours at kickball and wallball).

Agreeing to the game and rules is important, but playing with a group was (and still is) the most important thing.

Quote from: jibbajibba;524016You must mean American Sporty kids, where winning is vaulted as some sort of goal.
Here in England sports are a way for us to learn to loose gracefully, its all in the taking part old man.

In regards to my own experience yes, I did all my schooling in the US. However, I can't recall the areas studied by the stupid article I read.


Anyway, on topic. I don't care if the hobby is shrinking or growing. Lives are not at stake.

Quote from: ggroy;524017I remember encountering numerous non-sporty types who heavily into cheating on exams and school work.  From what I remember of these individuals, most of them had very little to no interest in the particular class, and just wanted an "easy pass" with the least amount of work.  For individuals who had their eye on an ivy league university, they were after an "easy A" and extracurricular activities which looked good on their application to Harvard.

Fair enough, at my HS all the top athletes were also in the G&T program. they were also usually monied. I was yanked out of my low track classes and stuck in with them for my last two years of high school- apparently because of some test scores and the need to have a poor kid somewhere in the mix. I've never seen so much cheating in my life. Thinking back, it still blows my mind how rampant it was.

Quote from: Black Vulmea;523933:rotfl:

My five- and seven-year-old watch Scooby Doo, Ninjago, Adventure Time, and He-Man and She-Ra reruns, and the only ones I turned them on to was He-Man and She-Ra, after we discovered how much they liked the others.

And yes, my daughter likes the Rainbow Fairies, too.

Kids like action and adventure, and keeping the magic slipper away from Jack Frost's idiot goblins is pretty weak tea compared to dropping ninja moves on snake-men to keep them from getting the fang-blade and taking over the world.

When I started GMing for my (then) 6 year old, we went straight to Star Wars because that's what interested him...we've done some Marvel SAGA since then. I don't think he would have ever gone for anything too "kiddy".

Quote from: Aos;524032I've never seen so much cheating in my life. Thinking back, it still blows my mind how rampant it was.

I remembering seeing a lot of cheating in my engineering and computer classes.

It was frequently due to the professors being too lazy about creating new assignments.  So they just give the exact same assignments from the previous year, with numerous older solution sets to these assignments floating around the engineering society rec rooms, dorms, frat houses, etc ...  (These days, such solution sets can be found easily for just about any popular textbook via googling).

It's harder to pull off this type of cheating, if one is doing a thesis or project which requires original research.

Quote from: ggroy;524043I remembering seeing a lot of cheating in my engineering and computer classes.

It was frequently due to the professors being too lazy about creating new assignments.  So they just give the exact same assignments from the previous year, with numerous older solution sets to these assignments floating around the engineering society rec rooms, dorms, frat houses, etc ...  (These days, such solution sets can be found easily for just about any popular textbook via googling).

It gets harder to pull off this type of cheating, if one is doing a thesis or project which requires original research.

Actually, it's hard now in general. I've busted several plagiarists merely by googling a couple of sentences from their papers. We caught one kid three fucking times, and he was a senior in the department.