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Hobby shrinking?

Started by 1989, March 22, 2012, 02:25:17 PM

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Marleycat

#30
March 22, 2012, 10:31:39 PM Last Edit: March 22, 2012, 10:38:10 PM by Marleycat
Quote from: Old One Eye;523231While I have more than enough books and pdfs to last a lifetime of gaming, I find value in browsing around my FLGS or the RPG section of a bookstore.  Every once in a while I get the itch to buy a book, and my favorite method is to browse around the FLGS and pick up whatever catches my fancy.  Be a bit sad if everything goes to electronic shopping.

True dat. My FLGS is part of my social life, sad as that is. I support it best I can, which means I don't buy online even though I know it would save me loads of money, but that not the purpose of your FLGS anymore.

I'm lucky in that my area of country has heavy gamer presence and rock solid game stores completely intregrated in the community like my homebase in the Puget Sound. :)
Don\'t mess with cats we kill wizards in one blow.;)

Old One Eye

#31
March 22, 2012, 10:43:03 PM
I spend a little extra purchasing from the FLGS as well.  Even for stuff he doesn't have in stock, I order through him.  Support a small local business in my hobby, that's worth a few extra bucks.

Haffrung

#32
March 23, 2012, 12:24:56 AM
Quote from: DestroyYouAlot;523091industry =/= hobby

Industry's dying; hobby's never been healthier.  Those facts are not unrelated.

people chatting on the internet =/= hobby

I know a lot of RPG geeks have a visceral hatred of publishers, but it's nothing more than wishful thinking to believe that a decline in commercial publishing does anything but hurt the number of new people entering the hobby and actually playing games. Unless the forum trolls are out there recruiting new gamers and playing at the rate that GURPS, World of Darkness, or D&D generated new gamers in their prime then, yes, the hobby is dying. Without new blood all hobbies die out eventually.
 

Spinachcat

#33
March 23, 2012, 03:51:08 AM
Quote from: Simlasa;523188Posting this link flies in the face of my previous commment but it seems pertinent.
http://www.howlingtower.com/2012/03/dysfunctional-and-co-dependent.html

Good article. Thank you.

Quote from: Haffrung;523263people chatting on the internet =/= hobby

When posters talk about how the hobby is so healthy without the industry, I am pretty sure that they don't actually play RPGs. Just a lot of jibba jabba with blogs, forums and PDFs, but not much dice tossing.

The industry doesn't profit in a vacuum. Games that make money are those with more players. If nobody is making money, then you can be sure that new blood isn't flowing into the hobby.

The beer money of PDF/POD publishers is the same income as the pickle lady at the farmer's market (maybe less). Nobody is calling her a powerhouse in the food industry the way that forum posters celebrate itsy bitsy publishers.

two_fishes

#34
March 23, 2012, 08:01:12 AM
I'll toss this one out for you guys: if the industry were larger, with a larger, less insular creative community, maybe Ron Edwards wouldn't have been so influential--he would have been just one voice among many--and maybe 4th edition would have been more to your liking.

RandallS

#35
March 23, 2012, 08:16:33 AM Last Edit: March 23, 2012, 09:14:05 AM by RandallS
Quote from: two_fishes;523318I'll toss this one out for you guys: if the industry were larger, with a larger, less insular creative community, maybe Ron Edwards wouldn't have been so influential--he would have been just one voice among many--and maybe 4th edition would have been more to your liking.

As far as I can tell, Edwards was not that big an influence on the hobby. The majority of the hobby is interested in playing RPGs, not in design them (and only a minority of those interested in designing them care much about design theory). Edwards was a fairly large influence on the industry, however.

Given that I did not care much for 3.x, I don't expect I would have cared much for 4e even without any influence from Edwards design theories.  Larger RPG companies like WOTC don't really seem interested in good design from the player POV, but in designs that have the most potential for profit via multiple splat books and other products that appeal to the most hardcore gamers.
Randall
Rules Light RPGs: Home of Microlite20 and Other Rules-Lite Tabletop RPGs

Rincewind1

#36
March 23, 2012, 08:49:05 AM Last Edit: March 23, 2012, 08:57:17 AM by Rincewind1
Edwards' designs appealed to the industry, because at the core of all the wankery, was the idea of highly - specialised games, which would result in a new   "running mill" model - except instead of splatbooks, complete games...but only good for certain one or two things.
Furthermore, I consider that  This is Why We Don\'t Like You thread should be closed

1989

#37
March 23, 2012, 10:13:34 AM
Bedrock Brenan said it better than I . . . the old, larger companies are going.

Used to walk into the FLGS, and huge section of D&D, then huge section of WW, and another big section of GURPS.

Now, it just seems shrunk down.

jadrax

#38
March 23, 2012, 11:09:03 AM
Quote from: 1989;523338Bedrock Brenan said it better than I . . . the old, larger companies are going.

Used to walk into the FLGS, and huge section of D&D, then huge section of WW, and another big section of GURPS.

Now, it just seems shrunk down.

Part of that is because shops are dying as a distribution medium across the board. Just because HMV, Zaavi and Blockbuster are closing stores in droves dosen't mean people are not buying films. Hell even clothes shops, where the changing room was the staple of their existence have started to be hit now you can return goods so easily.

Haffrung

#39
March 23, 2012, 11:13:27 AM
Quote from: Spinachcat;523299When posters talk about how the hobby is so healthy without the industry, I am pretty sure that they don't actually play RPGs. Just a lot of jibba jabba with blogs, forums and PDFs, but not much dice tossing.

Yep. It's nice to imagine a couple hundred people downloading PDFs and discussing games on a forums is evidence of a thriving RPG scene, but it's just chatter. It's hundreds of thousands of people sitting down to actually play games and introducing them to new players that constitues a healthy the hobby. When people get excited over a PDF selling 300 copies, that's the sign of a dying hobby, not a healthy one.

And the furious indifference a lot of folks around here have to commercial publishers is a kinda funny. It's the kind of indifference bitter divorcees have towards their former spouse.

"That fucking bitch? I don't give a shit what that cunt does. Couldn't care less. Fuck her."
 

Panjumanju

#40
March 23, 2012, 11:18:10 AM
Quote from: BedrockBrendan;523173I am not sure the industry is in trouble so much as some of the large older companies have run out of steam as the market has changed.

It reminds me of the 90s in the comic book industry, when both Marvel and DC ran themselves into the ground and declared bankruptcy. Everyone screamed it was the end of the industry, but in fact the terrible work of the companies that held monopolies on industry forced creativity from underground and independent sources, leading to some of the best and most interesting things that have ever happened in comic books.

The future of Roleplaying Games is not going to come from Wizards of the Coast or White Wolf, or even Paizo - it will come from people's basements. And it will be fine.

//Panjumanju
"What strength!! But don't forget there are many guys like you all over the world."
--
Now on Crowdfundr: "SOLO MARTIAL BLUES" is a single-player martial arts TTRPG at https://fnd.us/solo-martial-blues?ref=sh_dCLT6b

Exploderwizard

#41
March 23, 2012, 11:30:18 AM
Quote from: Haffrung;523358And the furious indifference a lot of folks around here have to commercial publishers is a kinda funny. It's the kind of indifference bitter divorcees have towards their former spouse.

"That fucking bitch? I don't give a shit what that cunt does. Couldn't care less. Fuck her."

That isn't indifference, it sounds more like anger. The indifferent folks just look at whats being offered, shrug and only buy something if it looks appealing.

Heck I just spent over $200.00 on gaming stuff this month. I got a couple old modules, The B/X companion, and a whole bunch of stuff from lulu ( Labyrinth Lord & Companion, S&W whitebox, knockspell magazines) I like this stuff and if larger publishers produced more of what I wanted then I would buy more.

Thats just the way the market works.

As far as mainstream publisher purchases I get new GURPS books now and then but since the releases have slowed to a trickle, so have my purchases.
Quote from: JonWakeGamers, as a whole, are much like primitive cavemen when confronted with a new game. Rather than \'oh, neat, what\'s this do?\', the reaction is to decide if it\'s a sex hole, then hit it with a rock.

Quote from: Old Geezer;724252At some point it seems like D&D is going to disappear up its own ass.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;766997In the randomness of the dice lies the seed for the great oak of creativity and fun. The great virtue of the dice is that they come without boxed text.

1989

#42
March 23, 2012, 11:31:11 AM
Quote from: jadrax;523354Part of that is because shops are dying as a distribution medium across the board. Just because HMV, Zaavi and Blockbuster are closing stores in droves dosen't mean people are not buying films. Hell even clothes shops, where the changing room was the staple of their existence have started to be hit now you can return goods so easily.

Where do people buy their films? Amazon?

I know a lot of people pay for digital music nowadays. But what about the serious music hobbyists that need CD quality to play on decent stereos. Stereo stores are gone, pretty much. The hobby of listening to music on stereos is pretty much dead compared to a decade or so ago. Younger kids haven't even seen or used a stereo.

Seems like the stereo/music hobby is like the RPG hobby in some ways.

ggroy

#43
March 23, 2012, 11:35:32 AM
Quote from: 1989;523367Where do people buy their films? Amazon?

I pick up most of my dvds/blurays at WalMart and other discount stores.  Mostly places which sell blurays for $10 or less per title.

1989

#44
March 23, 2012, 11:36:43 AM
Quote from: ggroy;523368I pick up most of my dvds/blurays at WalMart and other discount stores.  Mostly places which sell blurays for $10 or less per title.

I get mine from FutureShop for new titles. For older titles, I go to HMV. Last bet is amazon.
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