Quote from: Kravell;778948Episode 1: you arrive at a village and find instead of a haven that is it under attack. What do you do? Info is given on the results of a variety of responses including doing nothing.

Episode 2: If the PCs stuck around, the PCs are offered gold to go after the raiders and gather info. If the PCs left the village this doesn't happen. Get out a dungeon.

Episode 3: Offered a reward to go back to the raider's camp and see if they are planning another raid.

Basically, this adventure doesn't work if the PCs don't want to oppose a dangerous cult. I'd ask them first if that type of campaign appeals.

Adventure buy in is a different kettle of fish than a scripted plot progression.

You forgot to mention the cake topper for episode 1:

A raid boss challenges the "greatest warrior" in the keep to single combat. He has hostages that compel someone to answer the call. If no PC steps up to volunteer for a first class asswhipping then some poor schmuck guard gets trotted out there to die while the PCs look on in shame.

If they ARE stupid enough to send a champion (a first level character) then he/she has the fun of getting mudstomped by a CL 4 half dragon with 57 hitpoints, including a parting shot ensuring at least one death check.

IF the champion wins the impossible fight then kobolds swarm all over and spirit their master away making sure he survives for a later episode.

Yes folks this is the new Fewmaster Toade.

Setup for dismal failure- CHECK
Making sure an NPC survives so that the PCs REALLY hate him- CHECK

Fuck that shit. :rolleyes:

Quote from: Exploderwizard;779336You forgot to mention the cake topper for episode 1:

A raid boss challenges the "greatest warrior" in the keep to single combat. He has hostages that compel someone to answer the call. If no PC steps up to volunteer for a first class asswhipping then some poor schmuck guard gets trotted out there to die while the PCs look on in shame.

If they ARE stupid enough to send a champion (a first level character) then he/she has the fun of getting mudstomped by a CL 4 half dragon with 57 hitpoints, including a parting shot ensuring at least one death check.

IF the champion wins the impossible fight then kobolds swarm all over and spirit their master away making sure he survives for a later episode.

Yes folks this is the new Fewmaster Toade.

Setup for dismal failure- CHECK
Making sure an NPC survives so that the PCs REALLY hate him- CHECK

Fuck that shit. :rolleyes:

Hmmm ... what if we had the same encounter set-up, except Cyanwrath calls the defenders out to fight their champion, or an unblooded Dragonwing (maybe a Dragonborn one)? Perhaps a favored of of Cyanwrath, or a test to advance someone or whatnot. Something a little closer to a tough fight (and not an impossible one) for the PCs. Then just run it straight-up and let the chips fall where they will.

Quote from: Exploderwizard;779336Adventure buy in is a different kettle of fish than a scripted plot progression.

This never seems to sink in. What the PCs want and how they do it are entirely different things. The notion that sandbox play means wandering around doing random shit is the strawman that won't die.

Scripted Adventure

1. Party ambushed by cultists regardless of how careful they are.
2. Party defeats cultists and reach inn, where they meet Mayor and tell him what happened to them.
3. Scripted encounter where priest of Mitra asks party to help track down lair of cultists.
4. Party goes to lair and witnesses evil rites. Cultists attack PCs and leader  flees.
5. Party discovers letter at cultist lair pointing to mayor as ally.
6. Party returns to town to confront mayor. In scripted scene, mayor flings priest of Mitra off cliff into sea to present dilemma to PCs.
7. Priest of Mitra is saved by PCs, and rewards PCs with magic artifact that allows them to track leader of cult to ancient summoning circle.
8. In climactic showdown, Cult Leader unleashes a summoned fiend while striving to complete ritual that will open portal to the Abyss.


Non-Scripted Adventure

• Party hears of cult that they have reason to seek out for any number of reasons: revenge for friend enslaved by cult, desire for an arcane tome rumoured to be in their possession, quest to eradicate worshippers of the demon, etc.


• Ambush described in adventure, but can be tackled or circumvented depending on the actions of PCs.


• Inn and occupants described, but no assumption made that PCs explain what happened, or disclose anything to mayor.


• Variety of ways to find out more about cult presented. Working with Priest of Mitra is an option, but it's not strictly necessary.


• Lair of cultists is written up with several suggestions for how they react to intruders. Leader will try to flee under certain conditions. If leader is killed it's not a show-stopper.


• Mayor written up as a dynamic character who can take over cult if cult leader is killed. If the party retrieves tome of demon summoning from leader in lair, mayor will try to buy or steal it from them.


• The summoning of the demon can be carried out by  the cult leader, the mayor, or may not happen at all. Contingencies presented for mayor claiming it's the PCs who are cultists, and the Priest of Mitra allying with Mayor to capture PCs.

Both formats have motivation and a premise. Both have compelling characters and situations. Both will generate a story in play. But the one will generate the story the author wrote, and the other will generate a story that arises organically at the table.

Quote from: Exploderwizard;779336You forgot to mention the cake topper for episode 1:

A raid boss challenges the "greatest warrior" in the keep to single combat. He has hostages that compel someone to answer the call. If no PC steps up to volunteer for a first class asswhipping then some poor schmuck guard gets trotted out there to die while the PCs look on in shame.

If they ARE stupid enough to send a champion (a first level character) then he/she has the fun of getting mudstomped by a CL 4 half dragon with 57 hitpoints, including a parting shot ensuring at least one death check.

IF the champion wins the impossible fight then kobolds swarm all over and spirit their master away making sure he survives for a later episode.

Yes folks this is the new Fewmaster Toade.

Setup for dismal failure- CHECK
Making sure an NPC survives so that the PCs REALLY hate him- CHECK

Fuck that shit. :rolleyes:

That sounds awful. But WotC did demonstrate in the 4E era that they know how to write sandboxy adventures (Thunderspire Labyrinth, Madness at Gardmore Abbey), so there may be hope yet. And 5E will work fine with my homebrew dungeon campaign.

Quote from: Exploderwizard;779336Adventure buy in is a different kettle of fish than a scripted plot progression.

You forgot to mention the cake topper for episode 1:

A raid boss challenges the "greatest warrior" in the keep to single combat. He has hostages that compel someone to answer the call. If no PC steps up to volunteer for a first class asswhipping then some poor schmuck guard gets trotted out there to die while the PCs look on in shame.

If they ARE stupid enough to send a champion (a first level character) then he/she has the fun of getting mudstomped by a CL 4 half dragon with 57 hitpoints, including a parting shot ensuring at least one death check.

IF the champion wins the impossible fight then kobolds swarm all over and spirit their master away making sure he survives for a later episode.

Yes folks this is the new Fewmaster Toade.

Setup for dismal failure- CHECK
Making sure an NPC survives so that the PCs REALLY hate him- CHECK

Fuck that shit. :rolleyes:

And don't forget, if rest of party attacks the Half-Dragon, they will also have to contend with 16 Kobolds as well...

Did I forget to mention said Half-Dragon also has a Lightning Breath (recharges on 5-6) for 4d10 with a Dex save DC 13 for half? He also has Action Surge, and a Multi-attack for two attacks with a Greatsword for 2d6+4 and Improved Critical 19-20.

Quote from: Kravell;778948Basically, this adventure doesn't work if the PCs don't want to oppose a dangerous cult. I'd ask them first if that type of campaign appeals.

Careful, you and the entire Milky Way Galaxy might fall into that excluded middle between a "track down the cult" adventure and a set of scripted scenes on rails that not only set the scene in a certain way but are guaranteed to end in a certain way as well.

In my experience, its pretty easy to interest characters to track down a cult.

You don't need to railroad.

Just have the cult do what the cult does.

Characters will presumably either oppose the cults activities, ignore it until it impacts them more directly, join the cult, steal from the cult, replace the cult, etc...

My philosophy is to not force them to fight the cult.

Quote from: CRKrueger;778736...sigh...

You didn't make a terrible mistake, the PC's made a terrible mistake thinking they could take on an Adult Dragon without some form of magical protection against it's Breath Weapon.

Yeah death may have introduced a speedbump into the all-important story of the PC's, but that's why god created fast chargen rules, right?  

If some or all of the party got wiped, then surely there must be other worthies out there.

All you did was rob the players of their vengeance and let them know they're playing in Video Game Land now.  

We got this! We're PC's! Attack!

ymmv, etc...

Yeah, they're dead. Let them stay dead. "Roll another character."

Quote from: YourSwordisMine;779388And don't forget, if rest of party attacks the Half-Dragon, they will also have to contend with 16 Kobolds as well...

Did I forget to mention said Half-Dragon also has a Lightning Breath (recharges on 5-6) for 4d10 with a Dex save DC 13 for half? He also has Action Surge, and a Multi-attack for two attacks with a Greatsword for 2d6+4 and Improved Critical 19-20.

I assume the PC's don't know any of this until the ass kicking commences. Sounds like you can call the incident "scouting the opposition using one's face.":-)

So, I've read the first episode of HotDQ. Attacking the dragon is actually unavoidable. The Players are supposed to attack it, hell they are penalized if they don't. They way it is written, the only way for the dragon to leave is to cause 24 points of damage or one critical.

The dragon is strafing the keep, every pass it kills 1d4 guards and injures 1d6 others. Once the players enter the keep the counting of kills begins. Normally the players will earn 50XP each for scaring away the dragon. If 10 Guards are killed, this total drops to 25XP. The players only have a few passes in order to scare it away for full XP. Of course they don't know that. There is nothing about what happens if the party doesn't attack the dragon. Does it just continue killing guards? Does it just get bored and leave? When the Party reaches the keep, it comes under siege from the Cultists. Why doesn't the Dragon just attack the keep walls creating a breach? It's an Adult Blue Dragon (Challenge 16), it could stomp this keep flat without batting an eye... And yet it is scared off by 24 points of damage? WTF... Once the players "scare" away the dragon, it doesn't even appear later in the module...

It is an absolutely pointless addition to the module...


As I said, I've only read the first episode in any detail so far. I cant say if the rest of it is as stupid...

Quote from: cranebump;779515I assume the PC's don't know any of this until the ass kicking commences. Sounds like you can call the incident "scouting the opposition using one's face.":-)

Yup, pretty much...

I think one thing to keep in mind that is very relevant is that this adventure is designed for the Adventurer's League, so there has to be a lot more strict "railroading" than you might find in an adventure desigend for home play.  Since the AL is designed to have players all follow the relative same progression, treasure, and XP paths, as well as completing roughly the same amount of plot progression per session, the adventure has to be fairly linear.  Just like the Slavers series back in the day that were designed for tourney play.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;779537I think one thing to keep in mind that is very relevant is that this adventure is designed for the Adventurer's League, so there has to be a lot more strict "railroading" than you might find in an adventure desigend for home play.  Since the AL is designed to have players all follow the relative same progression, treasure, and XP paths, as well as completing roughly the same amount of plot progression per session, the adventure has to be fairly linear.  Just like the Slavers series back in the day that were designed for tourney play.

If League play means that my participation doesn't matter and the same shit is going to happen no matter what the group does why are we playing again?

Of the things mentioned, that Half-Dragon duel sounds the worst. If I run this, that will definitely be changed.

Quote from: Saplatt;779552Of the things mentioned, that Half-Dragon duel sounds the worst. If I run this, that will definitely be changed.

But...but.... the main appeal of these farces is the shared experiences. Players in your group will never get to hang out with the cool kids and talk about how their fighter got beat like a redheaded stepchild.:rolleyes:

Neither situation is one a little DIY can't fix. Or you can spend all your time grog-raging to the internet about how they did it wrong. There's a meaningful choice for you; one involves playing the game, and the other does not.