Okay, gamers, question for you: What is the best way to implement hit locations in D&D? I've been fighting with the game for a while now over them evil inflating HP, so I got wondering....
Do I divvy locations like RQ, or do I do it where certain locations add to damage? I'm thinking the latter. Head shots do double damage or some such.
My goal is to tighten up the combat because when HP get too high I shake my head and lose interest in the game, finding fights more tedious than fun. But, much of my thinking is in D&D terms. It's a curse and a blessing. I watch a movie and go - he's a 6th level ranger. Or whatever class I guesstimate. I also don't want to retire all the characters at fourth level before HP gets too superhero-y for me.
Maybe 3 levels of rolling HD and then a point per level thereafter?
Maybe, for simplicities sake, I'll borrow Pundit's way of leveling HD as seen in L&D, except I don't use skills with D&D. I could use skills, but they can become troublesome when the player ends up staring at their sheet indecisively.
I'm spitballing here, so I might be halfway incoherent.
It was done in OD&D Supplement II: Blackmoor.
That's all you need. It is pretty close the RQ2 (probably BM informed RQ2 given the timeline).
Quote from: PulpHerb on April 05, 2023, 04:44:12 PM
It was done in OD&D Supplement II: Blackmoor.
That's all you need. It is pretty close the RQ2 (probably BM informed RQ2 given the timeline).
Holy shit, you're on to something. ;D Page 7 is where that stuff begins. I don't know why I didn't remember this stuff. It's quite good.
This is a great idea. How about this?
Using a D12
1-2 Right Leg
3-4 Left Leg
5-6 Right Arm
7-8 Left Leg
9-10 Torso
11-12 Head
Or something like that.
Quote from: GhostNinja on April 06, 2023, 08:58:57 AM
This is a great idea. How about this?
Using a D12
1-2 Right Leg
3-4 Left Leg
5-6 Right Arm
7-8 Left Leg
9-10 Torso
11-12 Head
Or something like that.
I really like your chart much more than the one Arneson used, which was percentile.
I like that style of table.
Here's one that I use:
1 - Head
2 - Neck
3 - Left Arm
4 - Right Arm
5 - 6 Torso
7 - 8 Left Leg
9 - 10 Right Leg
Roll a d10.
Roll a d6 if attacked from above/flying monster or if bitten by a standing humanoid.
Roll d6 + 4 if attacked from below or a crawling/prone creature.
I only use it for crits or special attacks like venom. Get bit in the neck? Better amputate that quick!
Quote from: Jason Coplen on April 06, 2023, 12:33:52 PM
Quote from: GhostNinja on April 06, 2023, 08:58:57 AM
This is a great idea. How about this?
Using a D12
1-2 Right Leg
3-4 Left Leg
5-6 Right Arm
7-8 Left Leg
9-10 Torso
11-12 Head
Or something like that.
I really like your chart much more than the one Arneson used, which was percentile.
Thanks. You can make it a bit more detailed by making 11 the neck and 12 the head. Or you can do whatever you want to make it as detailed as you want. I find the charts that are really over detailed to be annoying.
I've always felt that damage increased with hit points fairly well and this wasn't a problem. However, here's a hit location chart for you:
20 - head
15-19 - upper torso
11-14 - arms
10 - stomach
5-9 - lower torso
1-4 - legs
Quote from: rytrasmi on April 06, 2023, 01:45:24 PM
I like that style of table.
Here's one that I use:
1 - Head
2 - Neck
3 - Left Arm
4 - Right Arm
5 - 6 Torso
7 - 8 Left Leg
9 - 10 Right Leg
Roll a d10.
Roll a d6 if attacked from above/flying monster or if bitten by a standing humanoid.
Roll d6 + 4 if attacked from below or a crawling/prone creature.
I only use it for crits or special attacks like venom. Get bit in the neck? Better amputate that quick!
Yeah that works too. I just outlined a basic quick style chart. Dont like the over detailed ones. Often have dumb crap that I just ignore on them.
What about double damage for a head hit? Not going to happen often but it has the opportunity to do some nasty damage.
Quote from: GhostNinja on April 06, 2023, 02:30:41 PM
Quote from: Jason Coplen on April 06, 2023, 12:33:52 PM
Quote from: GhostNinja on April 06, 2023, 08:58:57 AM
This is a great idea. How about this?
Using a D12
1-2 Right Leg
3-4 Left Leg
5-6 Right Arm
7-8 Left Leg
9-10 Torso
11-12 Head
Or something like that.
I really like your chart much more than the one Arneson used, which was percentile.
Thanks. You can make it a bit more detailed by making 11 the neck and 12 the head. Or you can do whatever you want to make it as detailed as you want. I find the charts that are really over detailed to be annoying.
I think your first chart will work just fine. If I wanted it detailed I'd do the HarnMaster route, but D&D is so much simpler. The hit locations is to make it grittier, so to speak. I want to not get crazy. A d12 is very simple and it gives me a reason to use a d12, a dice with very few uses. rytrasmi has a good and easy chart, too.
Double damage for a head shot would speed combat up. Combat gets terribly slow at higher levels.
Quote from: GhostNinja on April 06, 2023, 02:32:19 PM
Quote from: rytrasmi on April 06, 2023, 01:45:24 PM
I like that style of table.
Here's one that I use:
1 - Head
2 - Neck
3 - Left Arm
4 - Right Arm
5 - 6 Torso
7 - 8 Left Leg
9 - 10 Right Leg
Roll a d10.
Roll a d6 if attacked from above/flying monster or if bitten by a standing humanoid.
Roll d6 + 4 if attacked from below or a crawling/prone creature.
I only use it for crits or special attacks like venom. Get bit in the neck? Better amputate that quick!
Yeah that works too. I just outlined a basic quick style chart. Dont like the over detailed ones. Often have dumb crap that I just ignore on them.
What about double damage for a head hit? Not going to happen often but it has the opportunity to do some nasty damage.
Oh for sure. Too complex and it won't get used.
Double damage to the head would totally work. I use it to help with crits. Take a mace crit to the head? You definitely take enhanced damage and now you gotta save or get knocked out. It's a happy medium between crazy crit tables (DCC) and systems that just call for a damage multiplier. It's simple enough and adds color.
Quote from: rytrasmi on April 06, 2023, 02:45:02 PM
Quote from: GhostNinja on April 06, 2023, 02:32:19 PM
Quote from: rytrasmi on April 06, 2023, 01:45:24 PM
I like that style of table.
Here's one that I use:
1 - Head
2 - Neck
3 - Left Arm
4 - Right Arm
5 - 6 Torso
7 - 8 Left Leg
9 - 10 Right Leg
Roll a d10.
Roll a d6 if attacked from above/flying monster or if bitten by a standing humanoid.
Roll d6 + 4 if attacked from below or a crawling/prone creature.
I only use it for crits or special attacks like venom. Get bit in the neck? Better amputate that quick!
Yeah that works too. I just outlined a basic quick style chart. Dont like the over detailed ones. Often have dumb crap that I just ignore on them.
What about double damage for a head hit? Not going to happen often but it has the opportunity to do some nasty damage.
Oh for sure. Too complex and it won't get used.
Double damage to the head would totally work. I use it to help with crits. Take a mace crit to the head? You definitely take enhanced damage and now you gotta save or get knocked out. It's a happy medium between crazy crit tables (DCC) and systems that just call for a damage multiplier. It's simple enough and adds color.
Crits with D&D? May I ask what you use?
Quote from: Jason Coplen on April 06, 2023, 02:55:03 PM
Crits with D&D? May I ask what you use?
Recently it's been Hyperborea which at its core is AD&D 1e. It has a simple (and optional) d6 table for each class with bonuses/multipliers (from +2 to 3x damage). E.g., fighter rolls a 20 to hit, that's a crit. Fighter now rolls a d6 on the crit table and gets a 5, which IIRC is a 2x multiplier to damage.
Then I use my location table to describe the crit, and hopefully make it more meaningful.
Quote from: Jason Coplen on April 06, 2023, 02:39:06 PM
I think your first chart will work just fine. If I wanted it detailed I'd do the HarnMaster route, but D&D is so much simpler. The hit locations is to make it grittier, so to speak. I want to not get crazy. A d12 is very simple and it gives me a reason to use a d12, a dice with very few uses. rytrasmi has a good and easy chart, too.
Double damage for a head shot would speed combat up. Combat gets terribly slow at higher levels.
Yep I agree. If you like the chart feel free to use it.
I like easy myself. Keeps things moving along.
Quote from: rytrasmi on April 06, 2023, 02:45:02 PM
Double damage to the head would totally work. I use it to help with crits. Take a mace crit to the head? You definitely take enhanced damage and now you gotta save or get knocked out. It's a happy medium between crazy crit tables (DCC) and systems that just call for a damage multiplier. It's simple enough and adds color.
I agree. It makes sense that a hit to the head will do more damage and have more of a effect because getting bashed in the head is a bad thing.
If you want to streamline it even more and make it fit better to the idea of hit points, collapse the hit location and the crits.
Think about it. Why did you want to hit the guy in the head in the first place? To do more damage, knock him out, whatever. And called shots are harder.
So instead of d12 with locations, do d12 with different crit results. Then flavor them accordingly, right there on the chart:
1. Glancing blow (maybe half damage) - upper leg
...
11 x2 damage - lower torso
12 x2 damage - head
Or something like that. Order them correctly, and you can even work a plus/minus into the table to reflect the chance to hit at all compared to a particular location.
That's not so good if you want critical hits lopping off hands, for example, but for a simple system that works with hit points instead of against them, you could do worse.
Quote from: Steven Mitchell on April 06, 2023, 06:04:35 PM
If you want to streamline it even more and make it fit better to the idea of hit points, collapse the hit location and the crits.
Think about it. Why did you want to hit the guy in the head in the first place? To do more damage, knock him out, whatever. And called shots are harder.
So instead of d12 with locations, do d12 with different crit results. Then flavor them accordingly, right there on the chart:
1. Glancing blow (maybe half damage) - upper leg
...
11 x2 damage - lower torso
12 x2 damage - head
Or something like that. Order them correctly, and you can even work a plus/minus into the table to reflect the chance to hit at all compared to a particular location.
That's not so good if you want critical hits lopping off hands, for example, but for a simple system that works with hit points instead of against them, you could do worse.
Great idea. Thanks.
Quote from: Steven Mitchell on April 06, 2023, 06:04:35 PM
If you want to streamline it even more and make it fit better to the idea of hit points, collapse the hit location and the crits.
Think about it. Why did you want to hit the guy in the head in the first place? To do more damage, knock him out, whatever. And called shots are harder.
So instead of d12 with locations, do d12 with different crit results. Then flavor them accordingly, right there on the chart:
1. Glancing blow (maybe half damage) - upper leg
...
11 x2 damage - lower torso
12 x2 damage - head
Or something like that. Order them correctly, and you can even work a plus/minus into the table to reflect the chance to hit at all compared to a particular location.
That's not so good if you want critical hits lopping off hands, for example, but for a simple system that works with hit points instead of against them, you could do worse.
Good idea!
I think I've seen something like that in a game, but the name eludes me right now. Maybe something by Greg Porter. He got into more "realism"* in his games.
*People die quicker and don't take 30 hits before dropping.
Old Dragon article "Good Hits and Bad Misses" implements hit location as critical hits.
Here is someone's take on the original article:
https://www.angelfire.com/dragon3/vinifera/critical_hit_table_2e.pdf
Quote from: Jason Coplen on April 06, 2023, 08:23:24 PM
Good idea!
I think I've seen something like that in a game, but the name eludes me right now. Maybe something by Greg Porter. He got into more "realism"* in his games.
*People die quicker and don't take 30 hits before dropping.
Where I saw it was in Dragon Quest. Now, DQ has a lot less hits you can take, though you get most of them right when you start. An average tough character can take around 25 to 30 points of damage, though some of this is "fatigue" that the GM reduces when you have been very active, and weapons do 1d10 + mod damage.
Anyway, the thing with DQ is that there are multiple layers of crits, increasingly more unlikely. The last layer is a roll on a d100 chart that has specific results: "You have been stabbed in the spleen for another 5 points of damage to Endurance, are bleeding 1 End per round, and if you live, will need bed rest for 2 months to recover." That kind of thing. The chart has different ranges by weapon types, and the results are ordered to make that work. So piercing and slashing weapons overlap slightly, and slashing and bludgeoning weapons also overlap slightly. If the result you get doesn't match a critical with the weapon you are using, no extra critical happens (other than the hit bypassing your armor already, which is bad enough).
The net result of all this is that the
potential for a critical is there constantly, but you'll only get one of those results off the chart very rarely. There's about a 0.5% chance (half a percent) for a starting character with a bow, for example. However, anyone, any time, no matter how tough, has got that small chance of the exact result on the table that will put an arrow through your eye into your brain--for instant death.
There's little about DQ that is elegant, and that chart certainly isn't. But the way it compresses detailed results, makes them ever threatening but happening little, and makes weapons distinct? That's work of art. I haven't got around to doing the chart for my own system. It's waiting on another round of testing. But it's coming. :D
Quote from: DocJones on April 06, 2023, 09:11:08 PM
Old Dragon article "Good Hits and Bad Misses" implements hit location as critical hits.
Here is someone's take on the original article:
https://www.angelfire.com/dragon3/vinifera/critical_hit_table_2e.pdf
This is nice but I think people are trying to get away from large, overcomplicated hit charts. They (or at least I) want fast and dirty so game play can continue.