Would you like to see some rpgs based on historical fiction writing in the public domain? And if so, which books?

While writing a thread about the Spanish-language rpg CAPITÁN ALATRISTE, which is based on the historical novels of Arturo Pérez-Reverte about Spain's "Golden Century", I was reminded that when I ran the Tiwesdæg Clíewen series of campaigns, I'd based a lot of the atmosphere and action on the historical novels of old England by CW Whistler.

Now, normally we think of basing rpgs on recent films, tv series or books. And of course we can do that, but there are a lot of legal and financial hassles with the licensing issues. We don't have that with "public domain" works, that is, works whose copyrights have expired. Which have expired varies from country to country, but it's a pretty solid rule that anything written before 1923 is now free and clear. For example, I got and printed out copies of most of Whistler's books from Project Gutenberg, which archives in txt format many public domain works.

So I could write an rpg on Whistler's series of books with no legal or financial issues at all. Same goes for Sherlock Holmes, Jules Verne and so on.

Do you think this would be worth doing? Would anyone be interested? If so, in whose works? Basically, if you can find it at Gutenberg Project,or if it was published 1923 or earlier, it can be used freely.

Would you like to see some rpgs based on historical fiction writing in the public domain? And if so, which books?

Sherlock Holmes might be "iffy".
 Pramount television thought that Holmes and related characters were in public domain in the late '80s when they used Moriarity on a ST :TNG episode. Then someone from the Conan Doyle estate or  that had paid for those rights surfaced - and Paramount had to do lots of negotiating to use that character again.

- E.W.C.

I'd be more than interested, but as Koltar says, just cos it's on Gutenberg might not be the whole story with regards to ownership.

The Anabasis, written by Xenophon: 10,000 Greek mercs hired by a candidate to the Persian throne try to find their way home.

It's available through the Gutenberg Project.

The Anabasis would absolutely rock!

-clash

That is an interesting question, JimBob.  A couple of years ago a group of some of my most creative friends has the typical "what RPG could we all write and publish" conversation.  After crewing on it for a while, we came to the depressing conclusion that it would be very hard to come up with an original setting that would be different enough to stand out, or a genre that would both resonate with a wide audience and which was underdeveloped in the gaming sense.  Most gamers have their pet projects, like my dream of a game of epic adventure in mythic Mongolia or yet another homebrew re-work of D&D, but the chances of these attracting anything more than an audience of exactly one is vanishingly small.  And licensed properties usually are out of reach for small publishers and hobbyists.

Using a property that is no longer under copyright is a good way of getting around those issues.  Potentially they could provide an unusual, untapped setting and might have a ready-made audience out there, but I have to wonder if most would be too unfamiliar to modern audiences.  And those that were familiar (like Sherlock Holmes) would almost certainly be surrounded by legal issues.

In the past I have considered doing an RPG based on Anthony Hope's Prisoner of Zenda.  I was thinking that it might have some name recognition, and it is a cool setting of political intrigue, court politics, and some swashbuckling with the chaotic late-19th century Balkans as a background.  Who knows, someday I may even get around to doing it...


TGA

Quote from: flyingmiceThe Anabasis would absolutely rock!

-clash

I agree 100%!  Talk about a cool epic!  And there would be plenty of opportunity for gritty, low-level adventure.  Maybe the default player characters could be a body of scouts working for Xenophon.  They could be Greek, Persian, or any of a number of people sent forward to scout the path, negotiate agreements with tribes and cities on the route, or ambush hostile forces. Their fate would be tied to the overall epic, but they would have freedom to act and write the "unspoken" parts of the expedition's success!


TGA

Quote from: The Good AssyrianThat is an interesting question, JimBob.  A couple of years ago a group of some of my most creative friends has the typical "what RPG could we all write and publish" conversation.  After crewing on it for a while, we came to the depressing conclusion that it would be very hard to come up with an original setting that would be different enough to stand out, or a genre that would both resonate with a wide audience and which was underdeveloped in the gaming sense.  Most gamers have their pet projects, like my dream of a game of epic adventure in mythic Mongolia or yet another homebrew re-work of D&D, but the chances of these attracting anything more than an audience of exactly one is vanishingly small.  And licensed properties usually are out of reach for small publishers and hobbyists.

TGA

Hey TGA!

Don't give up on that dream! Mine was to make a Napoleonic Naval game, but I thought "no one would buy it! If there was any market for it, someone would have written one since Privateers & Gentlemen went OOP." I was wrong, thankfully, since I decided to do it anyway for pure love of the subject. With the internet, you can profitably reach even the smallest pocket market. You'll never know until you try!

-clash

Quote from: flyingmiceHey TGA!

 You'll never know until you try!

-clash

Listen to clash.  There's always a market out there.  If you're serious about Mongolia, the guys who did Mythic Russia might be interested in it.  I think they're eventually looking to branch off into other nations.  If not, write it anyway and publish it as a PDF.  It may not rock the RPG world or even put much money in your pocket, but I've found (after publishing my own game and freelancing many others) that sometimes the reward is just doing a search and seeing people you've never met talking about how cool your game is.  I mean, I'm sure the industry didn't _need_ an RPG based on 1980s Miami, but I've been getting some really good feedback on it and I couldn't be more pleased.  Besides, what else are you doing in the time you'd be writing it?  Playing sports?  Riding a bike?  Exercising? Going hiking?  Waste of time.  Now get inside and sit down at your computer!  

To the OP - didn;t someone do just what you're talking about with Baron Munchausen?  I seem to recall they even bought one of the original printings and stripped the woodcut art out for the game.  Cool idea.

Pete

Thanks clash and Pete for your words of encouragement!  I was just kinda lamenting the fact that I hadn't yet found the "one great idea" that would light a fire under my ass!  Right now me creative juices (and limited free time) are going into a company a friend and I put together recently to write and publish a Napoleonic tactical land wargame for miniatures.  

In the meantime, I will still hunt for that illusive RPG idea that rocks on toast...for me, at least.

I still think that JimBob may have something with mining setting ideas from public domain literature, but with the exception of a few I can think of, I think that most of these properties are too remote to appeal to a modern audience.  

I do, however, still think that Jong's Xenophon idea rocks on toast...


TGA

Quote from: The Good AssyrianI still think that JimBob may have something with mining setting ideas from public domain literature, but with the exception of a few I can think of, I think that most of these properties are too remote to appeal to a modern audience.

Probably you're thinking of getting publicly-recognised names like "Sherlock Holmes" to catch the imaginations of people. I think that'
s more "brand-name" than "setting". Brand-names are fine, but they're not what I'm getting at here. I'm thinking of detailed settings. In any rpg, there are different amounts of setting and system; something like GURPS has bugger all setting and is all system, while something like Ars Magica has a good chunk of setting there, as well as a lot of system.

If we were to go to the public domain works, we'd have to produce something which is strong in setting. We could for example take the characters of a novel set in a province of Anglo-Saxon Engand in the Dark Ages, and turn those characters into NPCs, more richly-developed than NPCs usually are in published rpgs.

I guess I'm thinking of something like the Dragonlance series of modules was, except based on public domain works, and somewhat less linear, more setting books than adventure modules.

Quote from: JimBobOzProbably you're thinking of getting publicly-recognised names like "Sherlock Holmes" to catch the imaginations of people. I think that'
s more "brand-name" than "setting". Brand-names are fine, but they're not what I'm getting at here. I'm thinking of detailed settings. In any rpg, there are different amounts of setting and system; something like GURPS has bugger all setting and is all system, while something like Ars Magica has a good chunk of setting there, as well as a lot of system.

No, I understand what you are getting at.  My point is that these settings would be based on literature that is generally forgotten and not familiar or perhaps not even appealing to a modern audience.  Branding is part of it, to be sure, but a successful setting would have to engage the players.  I am not sure that a lot of these literary settings would fit the bill.

Now would I play in a game based on late 19th century literature?  Absolutely!  But I am not your average bear in that regard.  Now we could talk about what defines success, which is kinda what I was getting at in my earlier post.  I am absolutely positive that public domain books are a goldmine of potential settings, and if one of them strikes your fancy then it would be worth it to develop further.  And as the publishers have already said in the thread, "write it and they will come!"...


TGA

Quote from: The Good AssyrianBranding is part of it, to be sure, but a successful setting would have to engage the players.

That's good rpg writing, which is a separate thing to a worthwhile setting, good system, or whatever.

Good rpg writing is evocative, when they read your writing they'll be inspired to play. Notice I say "good rpg writing", which is different from good writing in general. For example, flyingmice, when you look at the organisation of his books, and how clearly things are set out - he's not a good writer. But when you read his rpgs, you want to play them, and you get inspired. So he's a good rpg writer. Because the purpose of an rpg is to be played, not simply read.

With good rpg writing, it doesn't matter a damn how obscure the setting is. The good rpg writing will bring it forth from obscurity into the light of the gaming table.

Quote from: JimBobOzWith good rpg writing, it doesn't matter a damn how obscure the setting is. The good rpg writing will bring it forth from obscurity into the light of the gaming table.

As someone who is left cold by many well-written RPG settings that just don't meet my tastes, let's just say that I find your theory unconvincing...

I think that there are excellent public domain literature sources for settings that would appeal to some gamers out there, the question in my mind is just how many?  Now, this does not mean that I am arguing that these settings shouldn't be written, even if it is just for the joy it will bring to those people whose tastes they do meet.

I think that potentially the strongest sub-set of these settings are those based on historical works, like the example of Xenophon.  But that is coming from an avowed history wonk, so take it with a grain of salt.


TGA

Mine PG just for historical settings? Be bolder, man.

How about these, from the Top 100:

Crime and Punishment

The Communist Manifesto

The Prince (Macchiavelli)

Assume that every word in these books is a true fact in the gameworld, then take it from there--build the setting out from the book, don't use the book as mere setting info (the GURPS approach).

E.g., what is a (N)PC according to the book? In a Communist Manifesto RPG, there are no individuals. In a C&P RPG everyone's a Raskolnikov. In The Prince... etc.

Philippe Tromeur's Wuthering Heights RPG did go down that road, but botched it by using irony (irony is a cop-out--boring).