Greetings!

Some awesome theme music!



Well, in my Nordic campaign, the group of adventurers have become well-established within their northern homes. The group has been promoting a new campaign of raiding against the various kingdoms amongst the Alben Isles and have forged several fortified strongholds across the sea. The group has been generally successful in these adventures, although recently some new developments have rose as challenges to their plans.

From the cold mists, fleets of Fomorian warships have begun to raid their fleets and settlements. In addition, roving fleets of evil wolf-humanoids have allied with the Fomorians. The evil wolf-humanoids are the Marghaan--wolf-humanoids that are blended with demonic heritage. Back in their northern homelands, threats have developed from the powerful Troll Kingdoms to the far north. Troll armies have marched out of their mountain strongholds, and entirely overrun and crushed several smaller human kingdoms along the northern frontier. To make matters on the northern front even worse, is that the Troll Kingdoms are also allied with a clan of ancient dragons.

I have embraced some of the mythic lore about Trolls, and decided that they should be skilled at metalsmithing, and also possess some considerable talent with magic.

What kind of magic do you think intelligent Trolls should have?

I have also embraced the idea that the Marghaan Wolf people and the Fomorians should have some kind of unusual warships, and naval technology. What kind of naval technology or naval magic should the Fomorians and Marghaan raiders have?

The Player Characters are definitely in for a serious fight. They have gotten fat and happy from booty and success--now, however, a time of struggle has come knocking for them.

I appreciate your help!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: SHARK on October 08, 2023, 07:48:59 PM
I have also embraced the idea that the Marghaan Wolf people and the Fomorians should have some kind of unusual warships, and naval technology. What kind of naval technology or naval magic should the Fomorians and Marghaan raiders have?

Storm magic. 

In keeping with the idea that you're going off of inspiration from traditional lore, this makes the most sense.  Maritime activities are influence by weather far more than on land.  Even today, mariners have strong held superstitions centered around weather and sea state like never eating pea soup at sea or don't whistle on deck because it attracts storms.  Wearing gold will prevent you from drowning.

Every major sea going culture has had them.  Viking, Polynesians, Phoenicians, and ancient Greeks all had spells, talismans, and rituals designed to assist with weather, sea state, and navigation.

There's a book call The Last Navigator about Polynesian sea going culture.  I think it would be well worth your time in this regard.  Indeed, I would recommend it to anyone looking to do a fantasy sea going game.

I would generally theme all of it around reading and nudging weather through ritual rather than casting instantaneous effect spells.  The ocean is massive and any magic need to respect the fact that you're trying to push around countless tons of water and air that does not want to be told what to do.  I would think that a raider group doing this would do things like casting a fog spell to hit the next morning so that they could attack under cover.  A ritual to cause a tidal wave to hit a port in a day or two would also fit.  Spells to read the weather over the next few days and spells to pacify the sea state would make sense.  A ritual spell to get the wind to go in the right direction and at the desired speed is something that nearly every maritime culture has used.  I would also have a "recoil" mechanic in place as well.  The sea is a dangerous place, even for modern ships.  It would definitely be expected that performing rituals poorly would lead to disaster and over use of controlling magic would result in the sea getting upset and slapping the shit out of your boat.

Navigational magic would also be in big order.  Things like knowing what way north is (compasses are new tech relatively), detecting shoals and reefs, finding land, finding fresh water, and detecting other vessels would all be useful.  Offensively, interfering with a vessel being able to do any of these things would most certainly be advantageous in a naval conflict or to engage in piracy. 

Quote from: BadApple on October 08, 2023, 11:16:25 PM

Quote from: SHARK on October 08, 2023, 07:48:59 PM
I have also embraced the idea that the Marghaan Wolf people and the Fomorians should have some kind of unusual warships, and naval technology. What kind of naval technology or naval magic should the Fomorians and Marghaan raiders have?

Storm magic. 

In keeping with the idea that you're going off of inspiration from traditional lore, this makes the most sense.  Maritime activities are more influence by weather far more than on land.  Even today, mariners have strong held superstitions centered around weather and sea state like never eating pea soup at sea or don't whistle on deck because it attracts storms.  Wearing gold will prevent you from drowning.

Every major sea going culture has had them.  Viking, Polynesians, Phoenicians, and ancient Greeks all had spells, talismans, and rituals designed to assist with weather, sea state, and navigation.

There's a book call The Last Navigator about Polynesian sea going culture.  I think it would be well worth your time in this regard.  Indeed, I would recommend it to anyone looking to do a fantasy sea going game.

I would generally theme all of it around reading and nudging weather through ritual rather than casting instantaneous effect spells.  The ocean is massive and any magic need to respect the fact that you're trying to push around countless tons of water and air that does not want to be told what to do.  I would think that a raider group doing this would do things like casting a fog spell to hit the next morning so that they could attack under cover.  A ritual to cause a tidal wave to hit a port in a day or two would also fit.  Spells to read the weather over the next few days and spells to pacify the sea state would make sense.  A ritual spell to get the wind to go in the right direction and at the desired speed is something that nearly every maritime culture has used.  I would also have a "recoil" mechanic in place as well.  The sea is a dangerous place, even for modern ships.  It would definitely be expected that performing rituals poorly would lead to disaster and over use of controlling magic would result in the sea getting upset and slapping the shit out of your boat.

Navigational magic would also be in big order.  Things like knowing what way north is (compasses are new tech relatively), detecting shoals and reefs, finding land, finding fresh water, and detecting other vessels would all be useful.  Offensively, interfering with a vessel being able to do any of these things would most certainly be advantageous in a naval conflict or to engage in piracy.

Greetings!

Very interesting, BadApple! I like your suggestions! I think there is a great deal of scope for expansion of Sea-Based magic, spells, and items. I'm already thinking and anticipating how the group will respond when they discover new, weird sea magic, weather magic, and the like. Sea based adventures are certainly something that is underrepresented in much of the game books and modules.

I am also preparing lists and details on new kinds of sea creatures, fish and other animals. I have some notes on expanded resources, as well. Octopus Head helmets, Orca Masks, weird flipper suits with whale tails. Jelly Fish Cloaks. Lots of potential!

Imagine having a war club that has an animated, giant Lobster Claw that snaps and moves for you while you are fighting. A special SHARK helm that provides you with a chomping SHARK head several times per day, allowing you to bite opponents, and gulp them down in a frenzy of chomping teeth!

Good stuff!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

For a sailor from antiquity, anything to do with the depths would be taboo of the highest order and those that dabbled with it would be treated the same as those that engage in devil worship in the 12th century Europe.  You could also think of it as Cthulhu level of nightmare.  It has a lot less impact on a modern audience but the imagery of Davy Jones and the Flying Dutchman from the Pirates of the Caribbean series would be absolutely shit-your-pants terrifying to anyone that sailed before the 1800s.  If anything, prayers and magic would be used to keep whatever was down there from coming up.  Today, thanks to the work of oceanographers, there's a lot less mystery involved with the depths but there is still a lot going on down there that is unknown.

Read the account of when Christopher Columbus sailed through the Sargasso Sea.  His sailors were terrified.  it was seen as a place where terrors of the deep came to the surface.  Many men thought they had met their doom.  Having been in it myself, I can fully understand why they would think that.

Dealing with weather and sea state would be like trying to deal with a heard of rampaging elephants, dealing with things coming up from the depths would be like dealing with something that came through a portal from hell.  It certainly didn't help that so many deep sea creatures look like water demons.  (blob fish, lantern fish, flashlight fish, cookiecutter shark, bristlemouths, anglerfish, viperfish, etc.)  As such, there have been taboos for how deep you would lower a line for fishing and a taboo on fishing of any kind in some areas of the ocean. 

Nearly every ancient culture has viewed water itself as being supernatural.  Many saw bodies of water as being liminal, a transitory layer between our world and unknown realms.   It's a core part of many religions.  Even Christianity sees water as being spiritually significant; verses in the Holy Bible talk about "living water" as holy sustenance and baptism is a ritual used by many denominations as a form induction. 

tl;dr  weather and navigation magic good, magic and creatures from the deep are Lovecraftian

Trolls are a favorite creature of mine, and one that I think gets the short end of the stick in a lot of fantasy.

To me, the troll is halfway between the gnome and the giant, and can have many of the qualities of both. I prefer my trolls to be disorderly but clever, and less evil than just very cynical and unsympathetic. Since trolls are a natural counterpoint to elves, they ought to come in similar varieties, i.e. forest trolls, mountain trolls, sea trolls, etc.

Regarding magic, there's an obvious temptation to give trolls earth magic, and that works; it's certainly useful for making boss fights. But I think it's better to make them masters of illusion and particularly shapeshifting. After all, turning flesh to stone and back again is central to the troll myth. Shapeshifting gives them a thematic link with Loki and the other Jotunn of Norse mythology, and also helps explain Icelandic legends about humans being turned into trolls or Per Gynt falling in love with the troll king's daughter.

On that last subject, I find that trolls work well with romantic stories. Possibly because they're usually solitary creatures and therefore lonely, or maybe it's because the lore around them is so nebulous. In my dragon warriors campaign, I had Njallgrum, a lonely old troll who came every night to visit the standing stone which was actually his elf paramour turned into stone by the fairy queen. He wound up being a bit of a favorite NPC with my players.

I really enjoy nautical-themed campaigns.  The ship becomes the player's home base and the crew of nameless NPC's become a cadre of new characters that can emerge from the background when PC's die or new players come into the game.

I prefer the 1500's-1700's. And love it when ships trade cannon fire then close for a boarding action. 

I am working on a campaign that is set in the 1600's caribbean.  The classes will be: Buccaneer, Explorer, Harlot, Sailor, Soldier, and (Native) Warrior.  These are the trope you would see on pirate vessels from that era and I draw heavily on historical sources such as Esquemeling's Buccaneers of America, William Dampier, Coxon, as well as the fiction of Sabatini.

Quote from: Svenhelgrim on October 10, 2023, 07:20:13 AM
The classes will be: Buccaneer, Explorer, Harlot, Sailor, Soldier, and (Native) Warrior.  These are the trope you would see on pirate vessels from that era and I draw heavily on historical sources such as Esquemeling's Buccaneers of America, William Dampier, Coxon, as well as the fiction of Sabatini.

Curious about your Explorer class -- what sort of combat capabilities does the class have, if any?

Quote from: Zalman on October 10, 2023, 07:32:50 AM

Quote from: Svenhelgrim on October 10, 2023, 07:20:13 AM
The classes will be: Buccaneer, Explorer, Harlot, Sailor, Soldier, and (Native) Warrior.  These are the trope you would see on pirate vessels from that era and I draw heavily on historical sources such as Esquemeling's Buccaneers of America, William Dampier, Coxon, as well as the fiction of Sabatini.

Curious about your Explorer class -- what sort of combat capabilities does the class have, if any?

If I were to make an explorer class it would come off like a ranger class in a lot of ways.  My inspiration would be the Royal Geographic explorers and I would give them skills and abilities that would reflect what they did and how they did it.

The Royal Geographic explorers went to uncharted parts of the world to chart them and record everything they could.  Often they would look for ways to open up trade routes and form relations with locals.  They kept journals about everything they came across.

Combat wise, they would focus on light arms and armor as they didn't lug around heavy equipment.  Any special combat ability would be focused on getting distance, outmaneuvering opponents, and getting to defensive positions.

Of course there would be a lot of survival skills but there would also be skills for identifying flora and fauna.

In this context, I don't think they would have any particular sea going skills but they should be able to operate as a basic seaman.  Where it could be handy is when land is spotted.  If the ship is close enough, the explorer could judge the likelihood of available water and food, if there are humans and possibly the level of culture there, and in a fantasy context, the presence of significant monsters.  Things like the observable plant life could indicate the presence of water and water could indicate the presence of animals.  field experience could allow him to look for wisps of smoke to indicate hearth fires that others would miss, trails made by humans rather than animals, small markers of human work like remnants of someone building a boat out of wood.  I would think that an understanding of geography would also allow an explorer to judge where a harbor might be.



A big feature I would definitely focus on would be path finding and discovery.  One thing I would definitely want to do is give them the ability to judge what may be nearby.  In a hex crawl, this would mean that they would have a chance to know what's in adjacent hexes. 

Finally, explorers often had to deal with local populations that had never been in contact with Europeans before.  Skills and abilities focused around negotiation, communication, and trade would be in order.

Quote from: Zalman on October 10, 2023, 07:32:50 AM

Quote from: Svenhelgrim on October 10, 2023, 07:20:13 AM
The classes will be: Buccaneer, Explorer, Harlot, Sailor, Soldier, and (Native) Warrior.  These are the trope you would see on pirate vessels from that era and I draw heavily on historical sources such as Esquemeling's Buccaneers of America, William Dampier, Coxon, as well as the fiction of Sabatini.

Curious about your Explorer class -- what sort of combat capabilities does the class have, if any?

So the explorer is the "Smart Guy".  I modeled the class on the historical persons: William Dampier, Liknel Wafer, and Pere Labat.  These were men of high intellect that sailed with pirates on their adventures.  In the game their mental stat is the important one and they have access to every skill.  Combat wise they are the worst. 

The "Ranger" role would be the Buccaneer or the Warriror, Since both relied on hunting to make their living.  The Buccaneer would be best with firearms while the native Warrior would be more of an archer with good hand-to-hand fighting ability.  Oth would have excellent wilderness survival skills.  But the Explorer; being the skill-monkey could invest their time into becoming good survivalists as well.

I don't want to hijack this thread.  Perhaps I should start a "Pirate rpg" thread?