TheRPGSite

Okay, I posted this over at rpg.net too, but I'll try it with this much more discerning, interesting, good looking and cool group of RPGers.

What RPGs or RPG settings are there based on Hindu mythology?

I have this crazy idea for an animal fantasy game set in Ancient India. You know, where the players are monkey paladins of Hanuman or elephant priests of Ganesh.

Off the top of my head:

Sahasra, land of 1,000 cities by Dog Soul Publishing (PDF)
(http://www.yourgamesnow.com/bmz_cache/d/d7c7fa52b7156475277e6a3f2b55f642.image.160x207.gif)


Mindshadows by Green Ronin Publishing
(http://www.greenronin.com/images/product/grr1402_200.jpg)

Then there is a free India based RPG floating around the net called LILA: A Vedic Role Playing Game.

I knew therpgsite wouldn't let me down.

Have you read/played any of those? Are they any good?

Quote from: noismsHave you read/played any of those? Are they any good?

I've read Sahasra, and sadly can't recommend it. it's just kind of bland, and the author sounds like he or she just read up on Indian culture on wikipedia for a lazy afternoon. It substitutes the glorious complexities of the Indian subcontinent for a stripped down fantasy equivalent which is very lacking in cool bits.

I think the niche still remains to be filled by a really kickass product.

Quote from: The_ShadowI've read Sahasra, and sadly can't recommend it. it's just kind of bland, and the author sounds like he or she just read up on Indian culture on wikipedia for a lazy afternoon. It substitutes the glorious complexities of the Indian subcontinent for a stripped down fantasy equivalent which is very lacking in cool bits.

I think the niche still remains to be filled by a really kickass product.

I know a bit about Indian history, but only from the fall of the Mughal Empire onwards. Not really enough to do such a product justice.

There must be plenty of India experts out there, though.

I recall from a couple of years back that Brand Robbins over on RPG.net (and other parts, I'm sure) was working on an India-esque sourcebook, something akin to how Atlas Games' Nyambe treated Africa.  I don't recall off hand if it was intended to be d20 or not, but that sounds familiar.  Sadly, I wasn't able to Google it up, and I've long since given up on using RPG.net's search engine for much of anything.

!i!

[Edit: Holy crap.  On a lark I used RPG.net's search engine...and it worked!  I found this post (http://forum.rpg.net/showpost.php?p=4982164&postcount=23) about Brand's d20 title Suryamaya.  Further Googling under the title, though, suggests that perhaps it was never released.]

Quote from: The_ShadowI've read Sahasra, and sadly can't recommend it. it's just kind of bland, and the author sounds like he or she just read up on Indian culture on wikipedia for a lazy afternoon.

As I understand it, this is quite off; the author is actually involved in Indian history academically. Where I think the book fails is in translating the concepts into game terms in a fashion that gamers will find intriguing; it's mostly thin translations to existing game concepts.

Still, I thought it was a good, flavorful read.

I can't find a place where the free downloadable RPG LILA: A Vedic Role Playing Game is hosted, so I have attached a PDF copy to this post.

I'm not sure how good it is, but you can't beat the price!

Quote from: ConanMKI can't find a place where the free downloadable RPG LILA: A Vedic Role Playing Game is hosted, so I have attached a PDF copy to this post.

This is just a preview of a planned book.  It certainly looks nice...

!i!

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaThis is just a preview of a planned book.  It certainly looks nice...

!i!

oh, apologies.

That was all I could find.

I was interested in what I saw, so I started to dig around a bit.  From what I gathered, that may be all that was ever produced for Lila.

It's kind of sad, really -- two of the most interesting looking Indian/Vedic games appear to be stillborn.

!i!

About Mindshadows by Green Ronin Publishing:

I did a lot of the preliminary work for a campaign using this subsetting and system.  While it has an Indian Flavor, it is more "losely based on" than actual Indian in orrientation. I find it more of a unique fantasy setting based upon a yogi/psionic based magic system centered on schools/ masters, than an Indian game.

Gurps India died a heavy death. Per the SJG boards, SJ Games was unsatisfied with the first draft. The author apparently dropped the project. Unfortunately, this was all around the time that SJ Games decided that the historicals just weren't worth producing, so if the project is ever resurrected, it will probably be an e23 item only.

I would be a bit concerned with running a Game Set in India.  It is the same problem most gamers have running a game of Empire of the Petal Throne/ Tekumel, and more directly with Qui or Tibet the RPG.

* It is alien enough to be out of most gamer's experience

* It might require a lot of reading/ work for someone to "come to understand" the game. Most gamers do not like investing effort into their "fun" (even though they will read a rule book cover to back four or five times).

* It is real, thus anyone who spends enough time/ money can easily know more than them by just picking up real books.  

* Since it is real, prepping for it would be like studying/ school and thus players will be adverse to it.

These last two are kind of odd to me even though they come from players I have talked to, because players will dig into and read through all the various WoD books for each clan, setting, group, etc, and spend more time studying it than a "real" setting.

Qui addreses this point about half way through the game.  Before this point, unless you had taken a College level Chinese History course, it just seemed like a fantasy world with Chinese Influences (The magic elements are minor and almost ignorable). The reason why the writers of Qui avoided all references to "China" and "History" was to avoid the stigma they found when they said it was a Chinese Historical Fantasy game.   Most people who read it when it said that "up front" kind of looked at it and shrugged.  When people thought it was a real fantasy, they read through a good chunk of the book and throught it was "cool, innovative, and wanted to play".  It is an odd effect, but I have found it to be true when I have tried to run any number of fairly historical games.

First, I feel obliged to point out that Lila is an RPG that was created by a hardcore follower of the Hare Krishna movement, and reflects their (very highly skewed) concept of Hindu mythology and faith.  Its about as accurate an RPG about hindu mythology as an RPG about early Christianity designed by an Opus Dei member would be likely to be.

Second, I agree that there's really no good RPG product for detailing mythological India out there.  What we desperately need is for someone to for India what Qin did for China.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPunditFirst, I feel obliged to point out that Lila is an RPG that was created by a hardcore follower of the Hare Krishna movement, and reflects their (very highly skewed) concept of Hindu mythology and faith.

Ah, so it is. That's what I get for skipping over the "Welcome" page where the author pretty much comes out and says so.

As for a Qin-like treatment of an Indian setting, I agree.  Furthermore, I'd suggest that a really good treatment of a Japanese setting has yet to be done (always the same, tired emphasis on the Sengoku period).

!i!

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaAs for a Qin-like treatment of an Indian setting, I agree.  Furthermore, I'd suggest that a really good treatment of a Japanese setting has yet to be done (always the same, tired emphasis on the Sengoku period).

I did the Muromachi period when I did RQ Japan. You know that The Blossoms are Falling for BW does the Genpei War period?

Quote from: droogYou know that The Blossoms are Falling for BW does the Genpei War period?

I was of the impression that it focused on the Sengoku as well.  Good for them.  I still have sheafs of notes for running Pendragon during the late Heian/early Kamakura (and it serves me right for not running with the ball when it was handed to me).

!i!

Quote from: RPGPunditSecond, I agree that there's really no good RPG product for detailing mythological India out there.  What we desperately need is for someone to for India what Qin did for China.

Actually what is needed is someone to get the ball rolling and do for India what TSR did for the Middle East with Al-Qadim.

Regards,
David R

Quote from: David RActually what is needed is someone to get the ball rolling and do for India what TSR did for the Middle East with Al-Qadim.

Fingers crossed, maybe that's what Brand is doing with Suryamaya -- retooling it for 4e.

!i!

The problem with taking Japanese RPGs back to other, colorful, periods is that you start to lose things that we consider, as gamer geeks, as authentic Japanese Flavor.  The Sengoku period was long and wild and makes good gaming territory, and once Meiji period is even easier to grasp with the blending of East and West.

But when you push back too far you lose things like Katana. The Samurai cease to resemble Samurai... even going back to the Kamakura period you have to understand that the influence of Buddism on Japanese Culture was not yet 'fixed', still being in flux. The Katana, as we recognize it was not even in existance yet, coming some three centuries after.

So, for gamers, notoriously lazy, asking them to play a Japanese game where they won't be able to do recognizable 'japanese things'.... like swing a Katana or be a Samurai (or at least, not without serious changes to what Samurai were...) is going to feel distinctly un-japanese to them.

Of course, Ninja are still good even going back to the Jomon if you want. Fuck it, man, they are pretty much pure creations of fiction, do what you want with 'em.

Quote from: MoonHunterThe reason why the writers of Qui avoided all references to "China" and "History" was to avoid the stigma they found when they said it was a Chinese Historical Fantasy game.   Most people who read it when it said that "up front" kind of looked at it and shrugged.  When people thought it was a real fantasy, they read through a good chunk of the book and throught it was "cool, innovative, and wanted to play".  It is an odd effect, but I have found it to be true when I have tried to run any number of fairly historical games.

I've noticed that too. "Historical" = "Boring" for a lot of players. I can understand that; we are playing a game after all, not engaging in academic study. (Although, as you point out, players are often prepared to engage in academic study of, say, different kinds of Vampires.)

I think the TSR/Al Qadim point is a good one. Al Qadim was a completely bastardised pulpy version of the Middle East, but it worked really well because it didn't take itself too seriously and it was just really well done. If I was to play/design a "Hindu Mythological" game I'd go for the same tenor.

Quote from: SpikeThe problem with taking Japanese RPGs back to other, colorful, periods is that you start to lose things that we consider, as gamer geeks, as authentic Japanese Flavor.

We'll tell you what to enjoy, bitch, and you will thank us for it.

!i!

You don't get katanas in the Genpei War, but you get some pretty cool armour:

(http://www.aaca.jp/images/access/sightsee/hachinohe/oyoroi.jpg)

(http://brian.hoffert.faculty.noctrl.edu/TEACHING/Archer.jpg)

And you don't get ninja but you do get warrior monks:

(http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/4644/sohei2fa8.png)

It'd probably be pretty easy to have a group based on the Thugees as an adversary in any adventure.

Quote from: Age of FableIt'd probably be pretty easy to have a group based on the Thugees as an adversary in any adventure.

Hmm, I like your thinking. With added bonus: detailed rules for strangling people.

In reference to Japanese games, I have run four different Nipponese campaigns each one lasting for about 2 years. To be honest, running them in a "Fantasy Japan" that have as much in common to one period of Japan, like most "Common Fantasy" has in common with the Middle Ages of Europe, is much easier. Thus you have "all that Japanese stuff" that your players recognize from movies and such (mashed together from different eras). We have Samurai, Katana, Sushi, Nobles active with bow and horse, Chinese invaders (or the threat), Bhuddism, Shintoism, Noh theatre, plus all those great spirit beings and oni. And you can feel free to make any political/ social/ historical situation that fits your campaign's needs. (You can also ignore the "police state" that the late period became.)  Thus you have a great deal of freedom (within the structure of Nipponese culture) to tell the story and play out the situation you want.

The real joy of running a fantasy Japan is that you can add any odd thing that "seems" Nipponese and the players will take it without much of a complaint. The mirror people of the lakes are really Fey Elves living in a Nipponese mode, but when coached in Nipponese terms, the players just accept them as part of the scenery. After all, it is "A Fantasy Japan".

This is an Aside (my real post is above this one):  the RPG.net side of this thread is just "going off the beam".
http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=398119

It is interesting, but odd.

Quote from: MoonHunterThis is an Aside (my real post is above this one):  the RPG.net side of this thread is just "going off the beam".
http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=398119

It is interesting, but odd.

Ugh.  It started out good, but then it completely derailed into some wierd fucked up PC deconstructionism or some shit, some dude got a hair up his ass, and now I'm pretty sure someone will probably be banned the way it's going.  


I would love to see a well treated Hindu fantasy game.  Wasn't there one mentioned in the "Non-english RPGs" thread?

Quote from: J ArcaneUgh.  It started out good, but then it completely derailed into some wierd fucked up PC deconstructionism or some shit, some dude got a hair up his ass, and now I'm pretty sure someone will probably be banned the way it's going.  


I would love to see a well treated Hindu fantasy game.  Wasn't there one mentioned in the "Non-english RPGs" thread?

I think thanks to the ridiculous "it might offend Hindus!!!!!!1" derailing it's been irretrievably ruined as a source of information, but what did I expect from rpg.net?

Quote from: David RActually what is needed is someone to get the ball rolling and do for India what TSR did for the Middle East with Al-Qadim.

The web enhancement for 3E's Oriental Adventures is IIRC a fantasy India of about 5 city states. Hey, at least it's free. :o
http://www.aquela.com/roleplaying/OA/mahasarpa.html

The link on WotC's site redirects to the 4E page currently. :mad:

Quote from: ConanMKOff the top of my head:
Sahasra, land of 1,000 cities by Dog Soul Publishing (PDF)

Mindshadows by Green Ronin Publishing

1st is pretty good, though skimpy. More a gazetteer, though there's an adventure for it. Mindshadows I got for free as a 3.5 is here! giveaway. Like the art by the main Palladium Fantasy artist and if you like Psionics in a setting this would be cool. I used the first to help supplement my Tekumel stuff and if I used 3.x psionics and didn't already dig Tekumel I'd have have given the 2nd more of a chance.

oWoD covered India in at least the Wraith and either their Asian vampire game or Changeling books. But just in a "over here there's this stuff:" (couple of paragraphs follow) way.

There was some Indian RPG in the works a few years back that was supposed to do this all justice, had some really good artwork (I remember FIGHTAN PHANTS :keke: :cool: ) but I never heard anything more of it. Don't think it's the preview pdf above.

Quote from: noismsI think thanks to the ridiculous "it might offend Hindus!!!!!!1" derailing it's been irretrievably ruined as a source of information, but what did I expect from rpg.net?

What they need is some good old fashion comic love :

http://store.naturalnirvana.com/amchkailclfr.html

An interested designer could base his game on the above.

Thanks Casey, I'll check it out.

Regards,
David R

Quote from: Casey777The web enhancement for 3E's Oriental Adventures is IIRC a fantasy India of about 5 city states. Hey, at least it's free. :o
http://www.aquela.com/roleplaying/OA/mahasarpa.html

The link on WotC's site redirects to the 4E page currently. :mad:

Hm. I didn't know about that. Thanks for the linkage.

Quote from: MoonHunterTo be honest, running them in a "Fantasy Japan" that have as much in common to one period of Japan, like most "Common Fantasy" has in common with the Middle Ages of Europe, is much easier. Thus you have "all that Japanese stuff" that your players recognize from movies and such (mashed together from different eras). We have Samurai, Katana, Sushi, Nobles active with bow and horse, Chinese invaders (or the threat), Bhuddism, Shintoism, Noh theatre, plus all those great spirit beings and oni.

Similar to the "literary" approach that Pendragon takes with the history of Britain, relying on legend and folklore to set the tone of the campaign, one can take a literary approach to Japanese history, too.  There's a huge body of literature from kabuki theater, where the stories are set in the Heian-Kamakura period, but, like so many of the Arthurian legends, the details are totally anachronistic, drawing in setting pieces from the era in which the plays were written.  There's an honest-to-goodness literary precedent for doing this in your campaign.

Back to the matter of an Indian/Vedic game, dear God, the RPG.net thread got totally blind-sided by the whole living religion thing.

!i!

Quote from: noismsI think thanks to the ridiculous "it might offend Hindus!!!!!!1" derailing it's been irretrievably ruined as a source of information, but what did I expect from rpg.net?

I'm sorry I contributed to the derailing, but I find the idea that no RPGs about India are made because they might offen Hindus ridiculous, so I couldn't help trying to refute that.

SJG was making a GURPS Supplement about India, but unfortunately it got cancelled. A pity, I'd have bought that in a heartbeat. There is a document in the internet which supposedly is the playtesting document of GURPS India. Here it is:

There's a small web add on for Oriental Adventures that is Indian inspired but there's not much to it:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20011019a (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20011019a)

Quote from: ClaudiusI'm sorry I contributed to the derailing, but I find the idea that no RPGs about India are made because they might offen Hindus ridiculous, so I couldn't help trying to refute that.

SJG was making a GURPS Supplement about India, but unfortunately it got cancelled. A pity, I'd have bought that in a heartbeat. There is a document in the internet which supposedly is the playtesting document of GURPS India. Here it is:

Oh, don't worry, I contributed to it myself by getting sucked into the silliness and trying to refute it too.

Thanks for the link! I've only played one session of GURPS in my life, but they really had a knack for good sourcebooks.

Apologies for the thread necromancy, but I have tuned up some more stuff.

The Star of Kolhapur (an Advanced Dungeons & Dragons, 2nd Edition RPGA tournament adventure set in mythic India)

The Complete book of Rakshasas by Goodman Games has a Yogi class in it that is supposed to be pretty good and appeared in Monte Cook's "Year's Best d20"

A Magical Society: Silk Road from Expeditious Retreat Press could be handy in an India based setting.

Dragon magazine
Issue 225 has 2e character kits from India.
Issue 226 contains 2e spells from India.
Issue 189 contains 2e stats for weapons from India.
Issue 229 contains 2e magic items from India.

Hey Pundit didn't you post a thread asking if there was an interest in a Hindu based RPG and I posted saying that I didn't think there was a market?
Well looks like I was mistaken.

An Indian fantasy game would rock. It would definitely put Exalted to shame.

I have the old BECMI D&D Hollow World adventure 'Night Storm', set in an Indian-type setting, which is quite good and contains enough info to use the setting in a game.

I think actual Hindu mythology is really complex, though, and not particularly suitable for translating into a playable RPG.  Plus you may get to offend people!  :) {I've acquired a degree of reverence for Ganesha myself, ever since I saw his golden statue in a shop window in my local high street}.

Perhaps. If you keep it to the gods becoming mortal and smiting evil with awesome weapons and special techniques, everything ought to be good. Throw in snake, bird, and monkey people and you're like halfway to something resembling D&D.

I'm very slowly fiddling with this idea, if I keep at it, someday my own fantasy-India setting might be released, you never know.

RPGPundit

Quote from: S'mon;232845Plus you may get to offend people!  :)

I dunno. Demons and devils and other quasi-Christian bits and pieces don't offend Christians generally speaking, so I don't see why Hindus should get offended. If they do, they're idiots, just like Christians who worried about Devils in D&D were idiots!

Having said that, I've always found it odd that in D&D you could encounter genuine real-world Chinese, Indian and Japanese Gods (they were written up in, for example, On Hallowed Ground), but not Jehovah/Allah.

Quote from: noisms;232969I've always found it odd that in D&D you could encounter genuine real-world Chinese, Indian and Japanese Gods (they were written up in, for example, On Hallowed Ground), but not Jehovah/Allah.

No Allah? What kinds of religions were in Al-Qadim then? (Never having read it myself, I have no idea)

Quote from: ConanMK;232972No Allah? What kinds of religions were in Al-Qadim then? (Never having read it myself, I have no idea)

There was a Zakharan pantheon. Some aspects of the religion resembled Islam but there were about 10 gods, I think.

Quote from: noisms;232978There was a Zakharan pantheon. Some aspects of the religion resembled Islam but there were about 10 gods, I think.

I guess that makes sense now that I recall that Al-Qadim was supposed to be part of the Forgotten Realms, just like Kara-Tur.

Quote from: ConanMK;232993I guess that makes sense now that I recall that Al-Qadim was supposed to be part of the Forgotten Realms, just like Kara-Tur.

Yeah, although we never played it like that. Al Qadim was a great setting, whereas I think Forgotten Realms is probably the worst.

Well, no, actually Krynn is the worst...

Quote from: noisms;232969I dunno. Demons and devils and other quasi-Christian bits and pieces don't offend Christians generally speaking, so I don't see why Hindus should get offended. If they do, they're idiots, just like Christians who worried about Devils in D&D were idiots!

More about not understanding what you're writing about.  I think applying the D&D Alignment system to actually-worshipped deities is a golden opportunity to cause offence.
Anyway I wasn't being serious; it's usually just the monotheists you need to worry about.  Hence the general absence of God, Jhwh and Allah in RPGs.

Then you haven't run into the fundamentalist Hindus.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;233049Then you haven't run into the fundamentalist Hindus.

RPGPundit

Haven't met many, but I'm certainly aware of the BJP et al.  They seem to have learned a few tricks from the Muslims and maybe from the Christians too.

There were branches of Hinduism that always had very intolerant and fanatical bents to them, they didn't need to learn them from anyone.

Remember that "hinduism" as it exists today was originally created as a reactionary movement against Buddhism, and that they basically drove the Buddhists out of India, and not just by chanting "hare krishna" at them.

RPGPundit

Quote from: S'mon;233042More about not understanding what you're writing about.  I think applying the D&D Alignment system to actually-worshipped deities is a golden opportunity to cause offence.

They've actually already done it, in I think Legends & Lore and On Hallowed Ground. Not for Jehovah/Allah/whatever but for real life Chinese, Japanese and Indian deities. With alignments and everything. It's debatable whether those Chinese deities are worshiped anymore, but the Japanese ones still are in some quarters and the Indian ones certainly are.

I'm not sure why it would cause offence unless it was used as an atheist stick to beat Christians with. I suppose you could imagine Jonathan Snead or somebody using it for that: "Jehovah: Lawful Evil Greater Power" - yeah, in your face, religion!

Quote from: noisms;233277I'm not sure why it would cause offence unless it was used as an atheist stick to beat Christians with.

Well, say you revere Odin as the patron god of kings and upholder of Law, and you see he's been rated Chaotic Neutral.  :)  Or you're an Aztlan nationalist and you see your beloved Huiztilopohthcli is Chaotic Evil...

Here we go again with the "If you look too long at (ethnic/religious group/whatever), you'll offend 'em!!!" :rolleyes:

Quote from: S'mon;233042More about not understanding what you're writing about.  I think applying the D&D Alignment system to actually-worshipped deities is a golden opportunity to cause offence.

Well, the D&D alignment system, as well as other D&D subsystems, only makes sense in D&D. When you apply it (or another D&D subsystem) to whatever that is not D&D, it collapses. D&D is its own thing.

Mind you, I agree that it might be possible to portrait a country, a culture or a ethnic group in an offensive manner in a RPG. But often, specially in rpg.net but sometimes also here, I get vibe that some people are too eager to feel "offended" in order to fuel their self-rightousness. Please. I think it's not so difficult not to offend somebody, unless that somebody is eager to find offense where there isn't.

QuoteAnyway I wasn't being serious; it's usually just the monotheists you need to worry about.  Hence the general absence of God, Jhwh and Allah in RPGs.

Hmmm, I can think of a few ones:

Ars Magica
Pendragon
Aquelarre
Anno Domini
Dzikie Pola
Capitán Alatriste

In these games, religion plays an important (not just casual, otherwise I'd mention way more) role in the setting. In some of them, if you believe in God (the Jewish, Christian or Muslim one) you get cool powers. So, there is no such general absence.

And if you said that few people play or heard of those games, so your "general absense" remark would be true, I would reply that I agree, few people play or heard of RPGs which are not D&D.:pundit:

Quote from: S'mon;233865Well, say you revere Odin as the patron god of kings and upholder of Law, and you see he's been rated Chaotic Neutral.  :)  Or you're an Aztlan nationalist and you see your beloved Huiztilopohthcli is Chaotic Evil...

As I said before, the D&D alignment system doesn't make any sense outside D&D (and it's my opinion it doesn't even make any sense in D&D, but that's a discussion for another thread). Real world morality, as applied to people or even gods, is very difficult to shoehorn into the D&D alignments.

Just to clarify, I'm not against causing offence.  I'm in favour of free speech, and that includes causing offence.  That eg 1e Legends and Lore rates most of the Aztec gods as Chaotic Evil is absolutely fine by me.  There are plenty of real world religions that seem pretty darn Evil to my mind.

Quote from: Claudius;233986...Ars Magica
Pendragon
Aquelarre...

Do these games have monotheist deities in them, or just monotheist religions?  I have Pendragon and it sort-of has Christianity, but there ain't any stats for Jesus or Mary.

Quote from: Claudius;233986But often, specially in rpg.net but sometimes also here, I get vibe that some people are too eager to feel "offended" in order to fuel their self-rightousness.

You've stumbled on the very essence of PC. It's a dialectical tool to beat others over the head with...

Quote from: S'mon;234019Do these games have monotheist deities in them, or just monotheist religions?  I have Pendragon and it sort-of has Christianity, but there ain't any stats for Jesus or Mary.

Well, I suspect that defining stats for God in Ars Magica would be effectively meaningless since he's so utterly beyond the comprehension of any mortal ("Strength: Infinite"), more a fact of the setting than a character of any kind. As I recall, the latest edition's default stance on religion is that he exists as the all-powerful supreme being, which Christianity, Judaism and Islam may all serve in their own ways.

Quote from: S'mon;234018Just to clarify, I'm not against causing offence.  I'm in favour of free speech, and that includes causing offence.

I am against causing offense. It's not necessary to offend, but it's not necessary to be offended either. At least not more than common sense would dictate.

QuoteThat eg 1e Legends and Lore rates most of the Aztec gods as Chaotic Evil is absolutely fine by me.  There are plenty of real world religions that seem pretty darn Evil to my mind.

As I already said, the D&D alignment system is silly. At least, in my opinion. :)

Quote from: S'mon;234019Do these games have monotheist deities in them, or just monotheist religions?

Monotheist religions. In every case, deities cannot be monotheist, only religions can. ;)

Or maybe you meant something else I didn't understand?

QuoteI have Pendragon and it sort-of has Christianity, but there ain't any stats for Jesus or Mary.

No sort of. Pendragon does have Christianity, and it's an integral part of the setting. No, there are no stats for Jesus or Mary, they died hundred of years before the time of Pendragon, and besides, that would be pointless. :confused:

Quote from: S'mon;233865Well, say you revere Odin as the patron god of kings and upholder of Law, and you see he's been rated Chaotic Neutral.  :)  Or you're an Aztlan nationalist and you see your beloved Huiztilopohthcli is Chaotic Evil...

I don't think anybody believes in Odin anymore except maybe out of bullshit posturing. Some Nahua people might worship Huiztilopohthcli still, but it's a fair bet they're not likely to be reading old AD&D source books...

Quote from: Claudius;234143Monotheist religions. In every case, deities cannot be monotheist, only religions can. ;)

Or maybe you meant something else I didn't understand?

I meant the deities of the main nominally monotheist religions - Christian God & Jesus, Jewish Jehovah (basically same as Christian God) and the Islamic moon-god Allah.

Quote from: S'mon;234166I meant the deities of the main nominally monotheist religions - Christian God & Jesus, Jewish Jehovah (basically same as Christian God) and the Islamic moon-god Allah.

Ah, now I get what you mean :). No, you won't find stats for YHVH, God or Allah in those games. As I said, it would be pointless, according to the religions they belong to they're almighty. But I haven't seen a book that puts any god in stats, ever. I don't think that the reason arises out of a desire not to offend, rather of its pointlessness. It would be as having stats for a fan, what use would it be for a game? :confused:

Quote from: Claudius;234177. But I haven't seen a book that puts any god in stats, ever.

I guess you're not a D&D player, then.  :)

Quote from: S'mon;234183I guess you're not a D&D player, then.  :)

Correct! :)

I played D&D BECM (the first RPG I played, and curiously the last one ;)), and some D&D3, but no, I'm not much of a D&D player. I had no idea that there were D&D books with statted gods.

Quote from: S'mon;234183I guess you're not a D&D player, then.  :)

Gods were statted in some editions and not others...

"Rise from the grave!"...

Yes I'm ressurecting this thread again, I hope that doesn't bother anyone too much.

I just stumbled upon some more fantasy India material.

In Ravenloft there is a Domain called "Sri Raji" which is most definitely a fantasy version of India.

So far the only book I have found that references it is the Web of Illusion adventure, but I'm sure there must be other ravenloft books on this realm. Anyone know of any others? Is it in one of the 3E Ravenloft Gazeteers?