Quote from: ConanMK;232972No Allah? What kinds of religions were in Al-Qadim then? (Never having read it myself, I have no idea)

There was a Zakharan pantheon. Some aspects of the religion resembled Islam but there were about 10 gods, I think.

Quote from: noisms;232978There was a Zakharan pantheon. Some aspects of the religion resembled Islam but there were about 10 gods, I think.

I guess that makes sense now that I recall that Al-Qadim was supposed to be part of the Forgotten Realms, just like Kara-Tur.

Quote from: ConanMK;232993I guess that makes sense now that I recall that Al-Qadim was supposed to be part of the Forgotten Realms, just like Kara-Tur.

Yeah, although we never played it like that. Al Qadim was a great setting, whereas I think Forgotten Realms is probably the worst.

Well, no, actually Krynn is the worst...

Quote from: noisms;232969I dunno. Demons and devils and other quasi-Christian bits and pieces don't offend Christians generally speaking, so I don't see why Hindus should get offended. If they do, they're idiots, just like Christians who worried about Devils in D&D were idiots!

More about not understanding what you're writing about.  I think applying the D&D Alignment system to actually-worshipped deities is a golden opportunity to cause offence.
Anyway I wasn't being serious; it's usually just the monotheists you need to worry about.  Hence the general absence of God, Jhwh and Allah in RPGs.

Then you haven't run into the fundamentalist Hindus.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;233049Then you haven't run into the fundamentalist Hindus.

RPGPundit

Haven't met many, but I'm certainly aware of the BJP et al.  They seem to have learned a few tricks from the Muslims and maybe from the Christians too.

There were branches of Hinduism that always had very intolerant and fanatical bents to them, they didn't need to learn them from anyone.

Remember that "hinduism" as it exists today was originally created as a reactionary movement against Buddhism, and that they basically drove the Buddhists out of India, and not just by chanting "hare krishna" at them.

RPGPundit

Quote from: S'mon;233042More about not understanding what you're writing about.  I think applying the D&D Alignment system to actually-worshipped deities is a golden opportunity to cause offence.

They've actually already done it, in I think Legends & Lore and On Hallowed Ground. Not for Jehovah/Allah/whatever but for real life Chinese, Japanese and Indian deities. With alignments and everything. It's debatable whether those Chinese deities are worshiped anymore, but the Japanese ones still are in some quarters and the Indian ones certainly are.

I'm not sure why it would cause offence unless it was used as an atheist stick to beat Christians with. I suppose you could imagine Jonathan Snead or somebody using it for that: "Jehovah: Lawful Evil Greater Power" - yeah, in your face, religion!

Quote from: noisms;233277I'm not sure why it would cause offence unless it was used as an atheist stick to beat Christians with.

Well, say you revere Odin as the patron god of kings and upholder of Law, and you see he's been rated Chaotic Neutral.    Or you're an Aztlan nationalist and you see your beloved Huiztilopohthcli is Chaotic Evil...

Here we go again with the "If you look too long at (ethnic/religious group/whatever), you'll offend 'em!!!" :rolleyes:

Quote from: S'mon;233042More about not understanding what you're writing about.  I think applying the D&D Alignment system to actually-worshipped deities is a golden opportunity to cause offence.

Well, the D&D alignment system, as well as other D&D subsystems, only makes sense in D&D. When you apply it (or another D&D subsystem) to whatever that is not D&D, it collapses. D&D is its own thing.

Mind you, I agree that it might be possible to portrait a country, a culture or a ethnic group in an offensive manner in a RPG. But often, specially in rpg.net but sometimes also here, I get vibe that some people are too eager to feel "offended" in order to fuel their self-rightousness. Please. I think it's not so difficult not to offend somebody, unless that somebody is eager to find offense where there isn't.

QuoteAnyway I wasn't being serious; it's usually just the monotheists you need to worry about.  Hence the general absence of God, Jhwh and Allah in RPGs.

Hmmm, I can think of a few ones:

Ars Magica
Pendragon
Aquelarre
Anno Domini
Dzikie Pola
Capitán Alatriste

In these games, religion plays an important (not just casual, otherwise I'd mention way more) role in the setting. In some of them, if you believe in God (the Jewish, Christian or Muslim one) you get cool powers. So, there is no such general absence.

And if you said that few people play or heard of those games, so your "general absense" remark would be true, I would reply that I agree, few people play or heard of RPGs which are not D&D.:pundit:

Quote from: S'mon;233865Well, say you revere Odin as the patron god of kings and upholder of Law, and you see he's been rated Chaotic Neutral.    Or you're an Aztlan nationalist and you see your beloved Huiztilopohthcli is Chaotic Evil...

As I said before, the D&D alignment system doesn't make any sense outside D&D (and it's my opinion it doesn't even make any sense in D&D, but that's a discussion for another thread). Real world morality, as applied to people or even gods, is very difficult to shoehorn into the D&D alignments.

Just to clarify, I'm not against causing offence.  I'm in favour of free speech, and that includes causing offence.  That eg 1e Legends and Lore rates most of the Aztec gods as Chaotic Evil is absolutely fine by me.  There are plenty of real world religions that seem pretty darn Evil to my mind.

Quote from: Claudius;233986...Ars Magica
Pendragon
Aquelarre...

Do these games have monotheist deities in them, or just monotheist religions?  I have Pendragon and it sort-of has Christianity, but there ain't any stats for Jesus or Mary.

Quote from: Claudius;233986But often, specially in rpg.net but sometimes also here, I get vibe that some people are too eager to feel "offended" in order to fuel their self-rightousness.

You've stumbled on the very essence of PC. It's a dialectical tool to beat others over the head with...

Quote from: S'mon;234019Do these games have monotheist deities in them, or just monotheist religions?  I have Pendragon and it sort-of has Christianity, but there ain't any stats for Jesus or Mary.

Well, I suspect that defining stats for God in Ars Magica would be effectively meaningless since he's so utterly beyond the comprehension of any mortal ("Strength: Infinite"), more a fact of the setting than a character of any kind. As I recall, the latest edition's default stance on religion is that he exists as the all-powerful supreme being, which Christianity, Judaism and Islam may all serve in their own ways.