I like games with some narrative elements like Fate or Cypher system but I found HeroQuest 2 to be way too narrative. So I doubt you would enjoy the mechanics of that system.

Heroquest Glorantha is fully and comprehensively narrativistic in its design.

It's written by Robin Laws and as such it's well written and meets its purpose. But if you loathe narrative-driven RPG, it most definitely won't work for you.

Quote from: Luca;850457But if you loathe narrative-driven RPG, it most definitely won't work for you.

Hero Wars and Hero Quest were my exposure to narrative games. I had no prior loathing. I found the rules barely comprehensible. Not because the rules were difficult per se, but because the rules gave me something I really didn't want or need and gave me almost nothing I really did want and need. Simplistically the rules have the players pick the skills used, the system tells them who succeeds and who fails and then leaves it up to the GM or players to figure out (narrate) how that success came about. That is totally ass backwards for what I want from the system. I don't need the system to tell me that Sigurd's Hammer of Foe Smashing 2W1 was defeated by Lacunae's Seven Winds Dance 3W. I can flip a coin or roll a six-sided die if that's all I need to figure out. I don't need a 100+ page rule book. If I buy a rule book, I want the system to output some results and to give me some freaking clue how that outcome might come about.

That void becomes more gaping the less similar the skills are. Sigurd's Hammer of Foe Smashing vs. Cúchulainn's Gáe Bolga Feat is (or seems to be) more or less a same/same confrontation. But Sigurd's Hammer of Foe Smashing vs Robin Hood's Split the Arrow...I want the system to output something more specific. In part, so I don't feel like were are all just sitting around making wacky shit up. If I want to just do that, I'll pull out some of my Rory's Story Cubes and give them a throw..
 
Note: I can see how a system like Heroquest might fit the mythic sense and dream-like nonsense of some supernatural storybook-like place or a Heroquest path. I don't want the whole game to be let's tells stories about storybook places though.

Quote from: soltakss;850450So, even Chaosium are saying it is a new version.

Ah, so Runequest 4 at last.

Quote from: Bren;850462Hero Wars and Hero Quest were my exposure to narrative games. I had no prior loathing. I found the rules barely comprehensible. Not because the rules were difficult per se, but because the rules gave me something I really didn't want or need and gave me almost nothing I really did want and need. Simplistically the rules have the players pick the skills used, the system tells them who succeeds and who fails and then leaves it up to the GM or players to figure out (narrate) how that success came about.

Hero Wars unfortunately was cryptic, I agree. Hero Quest improved things and HQ:G is even better, especially if you plan to apply the system to Glorantha. This is because it has several examples of play in his text, so from this point of view it's easier to use than previous incarnations. Besides, of course, the explicit coupling of the system with the setting info.

Your description fits the system in a way, but I think you've it a bit backwards in terms of player-system interaction. What happens is that, in a given situation, the players want outcome X, the GM says the NPC (or obstacle or whatever) wants outcome Y, and you roll on a relevant skill to see who wins the contest. The thing is: if the use of the skill is obvious ("I'm using my Sword of Mythic Destruction to cleave him in half") there shouldn't be any problem in having an idea of what's happening. If the skill is not obviously relevant, on the other hand ("I use my Dance of Seduction to defeat the barbarian who's trying to cleave me in half") it falls to whomever is using that skill to explain how that is supposed to be relevant to the situation at hand.
Another thing to note is that you never roll for a single action. You tell the GM what your preferred outcome for the whole situation is ("I want to win the combat and slaughter everyone around") and the rolls are done to figure out whether you get to have your way or not. This is pretty common in narrativist systems, where the resolution tends to be at scene-level.

To avoid being accused of pitching it, though, I'll also note that I find the current editorial direction for the setting running opposite to my personal tastes. But then again, as far as I know this is common to all the new Gloranthan incarnations (HQ:G, RQ:G, and, if the info I read on TBP about the upcoming 13th Age Glorantha is true, in this last system it will be even more obvious) so it doesn't help you with your choice, I guess.

Quote from: soltakss;850450At the risk of being mischievous, Chaosium's last email update says:



So, even Chaosium are saying it is a new version.

As Chaosium's Lead Writer for RuneQuest, I can categorically state that they are mistaken. Steps, involving a large axe, are being taken.

Quote from: Loz;850478As Chaosium's Lead Writer for RuneQuest, I can categorically state that they are mistaken. Steps, involving a large axe, are being taken.

As long as you keep that axe away from RQ6, we're good.

Quote from: Loz;850478As Chaosium's Lead Writer for RuneQuest, I can categorically state that they are mistaken. Steps, involving a large axe, are being taken.

  It sounds like it might be most accurate to state that Chaosium Runequest will be to RQ6 as Champions 4E was to the HERO System Rulesbook 4E--same rules, but added or different campaign material.

RQ6 would be the best for your taste based on info you gave. Gritty, best edition of RQ to date. it is quite easy to use RQ6 with Glorantha. Some views here https://notesfrompavis.wordpress.com/2014/04/10/starting-a-glorantha-rq6-campaign-before-adventures-in-glorantha/ and RQ6 Encounter tool - see the side bar link on the same blog

The RQ Essentials document is totally amazing.  When people think of a free or lite version of a game they often expect a crippled version across a few pages.  The RuneQuest Essentials is 200 pages and is a amazing place to start.

It is though, very concerned with traditional RPG ideas.  About succeeding at tasks and whether or not an individual sword stroke lands true.  So if you want to do the mythic heroquesting thing it's going to take a good referee to figure it out.  I personally prefer the adventures in Glorantha to the mythic heroquesting thing.

Quote from: NathanIW;850548The RQ Essentials document is totally amazing.  When people think of a free or lite version of a game they often expect a crippled version across a few pages.  The RuneQuest Essentials is 200 pages and is a amazing place to start.

It is though, very concerned with traditional RPG ideas.  About succeeding at tasks and whether or not an individual sword stroke lands true.  So if you want to do the mythic heroquesting thing it's going to take a good referee to figure it out.  I personally prefer the adventures in Glorantha to the mythic heroquesting thing.

It is amazing. I think the authors have stated they created RQ Essentials along the same lines as the original RuneQuest 2 by Chaosium, ie. there's the same level of detail and depth in RQE as there was in RQ2. As far as heroquesting with RuneQuest goes, I think that's one of the things Chaosium RuneQuest is going to tackle, we'll see next year if they pull it off, no pressure on Pete Nash

Quote from: soltakss;850450So, even Chaosium are saying it is a new version.

Actually, the release you cited calls it a new edition, not a new version.  As I understand normal publishing usage, a new edition can be something as small as fixing a few typos with no meaningful change to the content at all.  Even if they just changed the publisher's logo, removed the "6" from the title, and left everything else alone, that would qualify as a new edition.

Quote from: Loz;850478As Chaosium's Lead Writer for RuneQuest, I can categorically state that they are mistaken. Steps, involving a large axe, are being taken.

Will this be posted to youtube?  (Video or it didn't happen!)

Quote from: Bilharzia;850562As far as heroquesting with RuneQuest goes, I think that's one of the things Chaosium RuneQuest is going to tackle, we'll see next year if they pull it off, no pressure on Pete Nash

Sigh... No pressure, no pressure at all. :nono:

Quote from: Bilharzia;850562As far as heroquesting with RuneQuest goes, I think that's one of the things Chaosium RuneQuest is going to tackle, we'll see next year if they pull it off, no pressure on Pete Nash

I honestly don't know how important it is.  Heroquesting apparently is really important to how the world can be changed and influenced, but I'm not sure what percentage of players and GMs will be interested in having a game about that.  I see it as something you might get to some of the time.  Though I suppose if there was a "how to start a campaign that is about heroquesting" approach right in the rules more people might be interested in that.

The only thing I'd say is that if Mr. Nash can make the tools he would want to use to support heroquesting in play then those who want to go that way will have them there.  Or if the game is largely more about just having adventures in Glorantha without doing the mythic world changing it can remain an afterthought.

--

As for the general topic, I think a thing to bear in mind is that developing your own "MyGlorantha" is an important part of the process of gaming in the setting.  In mine, for example, the Hero Wars that happen at the end of the 3rd age simply don't occur.  The game is set right before them and what the player characters do is what matters.

Quote from: NathanIW;850755I honestly don't know how important it is.  Heroquesting apparently is really important to how the world can be changed and influenced, but I'm not sure what percentage of players and GMs will be interested in having a game about that.  I see it as something you might get to some of the time.  Though I suppose if there was a "how to start a campaign that is about heroquesting" approach right in the rules more people might be interested in that.

The only thing I'd say is that if Mr. Nash can make the tools he would want to use to support heroquesting in play then those who want to go that way will have them there.  Or if the game is largely more about just having adventures in Glorantha without doing the mythic world changing it can remain an afterthought..

For Glorantha, it is important and RuneQuest was originally going to support heroquesting in an expansion, which never came out, or ultimately - it turned into the Heroquest game system. There were bits and pieces over the years that put heroquesting into RQ but I dont remember how well much of that worked if at all. Of course right now HQ Glorantha has HQing built in. It will be interesting to see RQ walk a bit on mythic ground, and how that works out in play, you can see it in *ceremonies* back to Cults of Prax but RQ didnt usually represent it much further in the rules.

Quote from: Bilharzia;850795For Glorantha, it is important and RuneQuest was originally going to support heroquesting in an expansion, which never came out, or ultimately - it turned into the Heroquest game system. There were bits and pieces over the years that put heroquesting into RQ but I dont remember how well much of that worked if at all. Of course right now HQ Glorantha has HQing built in. It will be interesting to see RQ walk a bit on mythic ground, and how that works out in play, you can see it in *ceremonies* back to Cults of Prax but RQ didnt usually represent it much further in the rules.

I still recall with great pain a decade or so's worth of annual and semi-annual announcements from Chaosium that HeroQuest would be coming out soon.

The ability to HeroQuest is important for several reasons. (This is my interpretation. What I say may have changed.)

1) As Biharzia mentioned religions include rituals that are ceremonial heroquests where the faithful imitate, replicate, and participate in the actions of their ancestral heroes and deities during the Godtime. This is a significant part of being an initiate or higher member of a religion so it is something one would expect nearly all PCs to participate in.

2) References to and examples of heroquests were published throughout the RQ2 period. As was mentioned, heroquests figured in the action for the parallel story by Biturian Vorash and a heroquest was used as a tie-in to the example character from RQ1, Ruric the Restless. I would certainly expect to see some integration of heroquest rituals.

3) Creative, rather than simply ritually imitative, Heroquesting would seem to be the natural end game for a Glorantha campaign. From what I understand of the culture and politics, powerful political figures will use heroquesting as a way of proving their power and legitimacy. So absent an ability to heroquest playing any kind of meaningful end game seems difficult at best.

4) And I want it in, dammit.