Quote from: The Butcher;567965So, as someone who played a bit of 4e a long time ago; whose favorite supers RPG used to be Mayfair DC Heroes 3e; and who really likes the idea behind Hero's power system... should I give this a shot?

In my opinion, Hero(Champions) has two pluses and one minus.

Plus: You can create any character you imagine; insane flexability to customize powers.
 
Plus: Clean rules that work.


Minus: Has a learning curve to overcome before you can make full use of its flexability.



I am a huge fan of Hero (Supers and Starwars; I have not used it for non suped up settings)

HERO Designer is a godsend for me and my GM to come to consensus on character builds, as we never agree on the first, second...or sixth build.

Quote from: Bill;597881In my opinion, Hero(Champions) has two pluses and one minus.

Plus: You can create any character you imagine; insane flexability to customize powers.
 
Plus: Clean rules that work.


Minus: Has a learning curve to overcome before you can make full use of its flexability.



I am a huge fan of Hero (Supers and Starwars; I have not used it for non suped up settings)

I think overall the curve is worth it.  Apparently it isn't worth it for a lot of people.  And in some respect the problem that I (and others) had with 6E is that it increased the steep of that learning curve without a commensurate increase in the rewards.

JG

Quote from: James Gillen;598172I think overall the curve is worth it.  Apparently it isn't worth it for a lot of people.  And in some respect the problem that I (and others) had with 6E is that it increased the steep of that learning curve without a commensurate increase in the rewards.

JG

How is 6E steeper?

It seemed to have a few minor fixes to 5e.

Or did I miss something?

Two big hardcovers, the first of which has been out of print for over 2 years...

Quote from: Jason S. Walters;5976994) Forty Bucks (plus the PDF for free if your FLGS is a member of bits-and-mortar) is not too much for a core book. If you don't believe me, go to your local game store and have a look around.

Which books are YOU comparing to?

Quote from: kythri;598244Which books are YOU comparing to?

I have to agree here. The only $40 books I know of are hardcovers or color.

Quote from: brettmb;598251I have to agree here. The only $40 books I know of are hardcovers or color.

Armageddon from Eden Studios isn't color, and is $40.00. The art is grey scale, not B&W though. It's also 354 pages. Armed Forces, a supplement for Armageddon, costs $43.00 from Lulu in hardcover, is also gray scale, and is 382 pages.

Those are the only 2 that come to mind that I own. All the other ones range between $30.00 - $35.00

Quote from: urbwar;598394Armageddon from Eden Studios isn't color, and is $40.00. The art is grey scale, not B&W though. It's also 354 pages. Armed Forces, a supplement for Armageddon, costs $43.00 from Lulu in hardcover, is also gray scale, and is 382 pages.

Those are the only 2 that come to mind that I own. All the other ones range between $30.00 - $35.00

Yeah, but Armed Forces is hardcover. My point. Is Armageddon soft or hard?

Quote from: brettmb;598398Yeah, but Armed Forces is hardcover. My point. Is Armageddon soft or hard?

Armed Forces has both hard and softcover. Armageddon is hardcover only.

I also realize I misunderstood your earlier post.

Quote from: Bill;598210How is 6E steeper?

It seemed to have a few minor fixes to 5e.

Or did I miss something?

The big thing that got me was not simply divorcing "figured" (secondary) Characteristics from Primary Characteristics, but splitting the formerly DEX-based OCV (how well you can hit) and DCV (how hard it is to hit you) into two separate stats both of which have to be bought up from a base of 3.
And doing the same thing with the formerly EGO-based Mental Combat stats.

Whatever the reasoning, the result was having to juggle more numbers and needing more points to make a character, and even though those points were provided, you get into a situation I call point inflation - where it takes more points- and therefore, more decisions and more calculation- to get a character that was basically at the standard you expected of 5th Edition.

Now, if I felt that way, and a lot of grognards felt that way, you can imagine how all the point-buy haters on this site and The Banning Place would feel about having to navigate new Hero for the first time having no practical experience with the earlier editions.

As I've said elsewhere, I have no respect for the opinion "Hero System requires a Ph.D in math."  I CAN respect the opinion "I COULD do all this math, but I shouldn't HAVE to."

JG

Quote from: James Gillen;598453The big thing that got me was not simply divorcing "figured" (secondary) Characteristics from Primary Characteristics, but splitting the formerly DEX-based OCV (how well you can hit) and DCV (how hard it is to hit you) into two separate stats both of which have to be bought up from a base of 3.
And doing the same thing with the formerly EGO-based Mental Combat stats.

Whatever the reasoning, the result was having to juggle more numbers and needing more points to make a character, and even though those points were provided, you get into a situation I call point inflation - where it takes more points- and therefore, more decisions and more calculation- to get a character that was basically at the standard you expected of 5th Edition.

Now, if I felt that way, and a lot of grognards felt that way, you can imagine how all the point-buy haters on this site and The Banning Place would feel about having to navigate new Hero for the first time having no practical experience with the earlier editions.

As I've said elsewhere, I have no respect for the opinion "Hero System requires a Ph.D in math."  I CAN respect the opinion "I COULD do all this math, but I shouldn't HAVE to."

JG

I am not sure I agree that seperating ocv and dcv is more math.

In fact, you no longer have to divide dex and ego by three at all.

You just buy the ocv and dcv you want, and thery do not have to be the same. Good for variety.

The 6e changes are excellent in my opinion.

I really have no interest in anything Hero does; nor can I imagine anyone new will either.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;598772I really have no interest in anything Hero does; nor can I imagine anyone new will either.

RPGPundit

Except presumably anybody who saw the announcement for Derek's book and said "Hey!"

JG

So, as someone who just recently funded the new MHI RPG that Hero kickstarted, its got me interested in HERO as a system. I've not played Champions since 3rd edition.

This sounds like a good place to start until the MHI book is out next year.