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[Hero System] Killing Damage Rules Variant

Started by Aglondir, March 25, 2017, 10:00:17 PM

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Nexus

#15
March 27, 2017, 11:03:11 AM
Quote from: Aglondir;953758Or maybe I might to do this:

1. There are no KA's or RKA's. Damage is damage.
2. There are no Resistant Defenses. Defenses are defenses.
3. Make STUN = Hit Points.  
4. If your HP <= 0 from a lethal attack, you're dying, blah blah blah.
5. If your HP <= 0 from a non-lethal attack, you're knocked out, blah blah blah.

SFX would determine if an attack was lethal or not? I could see that working but in a superhero setting there could be a number of fringe cases.
Remember when Illinois Nazis where a joke in the Blue Brothers movie?

Democracy, meh? (538)

 "The salient fact of American politics is that there are fifty to seventy million voters each of whom will volunteer to live, with his family, in a cardboard box under an overpass, and cook sparrows on an old curtain rod, if someone would only guarantee that the black, gay, Hispanic, liberal, whatever, in the next box over doesn't even have a curtain rod, or a sparrow to put on it."

Nexus

#16
March 27, 2017, 11:15:36 AM
Quote from: Aglondir;953756Or a STUN multiplier = flat 3. That way the 2d6 KA is doing an average of 21 STUN, which is the same as a 6d6 Normal attack.

We've been using a flat 3 so far. Its worked all right.
Remember when Illinois Nazis where a joke in the Blue Brothers movie?

Democracy, meh? (538)

 "The salient fact of American politics is that there are fifty to seventy million voters each of whom will volunteer to live, with his family, in a cardboard box under an overpass, and cook sparrows on an old curtain rod, if someone would only guarantee that the black, gay, Hispanic, liberal, whatever, in the next box over doesn't even have a curtain rod, or a sparrow to put on it."

Aglondir

#17
March 27, 2017, 05:07:49 PM
Quote from: Nexus;953837SFX would determine if an attack was lethal or not? I could see that working but in a superhero setting there could be a number of fringe cases.
Right. Some things would be obviously lethal (guns, blades, acid, etc.) Other things obviously non-lethal (punches, tasers, tear gas, etc). The player can decide when a power is bought if it's lethal or not. Are replusor blasts L or NL? Player decides. Is indestructible norse hammer L or NL? Player decides.

Aglondir

#18
March 27, 2017, 05:10:01 PM
Quote from: Nexus;953834Fpr Superheroic games, I've toyed with the idea of making Killing damage just normal where only Resistant Defenses affected it and there was a Body Multiplier roll 1=1x, 2=1.5, 3=2. Killing would be a +1/4 Advantage and the Body Multiple would not increase potential knockback. Only applying Resistant Def might be fine for Heroic games.
How does it work? Say I have a Desert Eagle (2d6 RKA).

jhkim

#19
March 27, 2017, 06:41:11 PM
Quote from: Aglondir;953756Or a STUN multiplier = flat 3. That way the 2d6 KA is doing an average of 21 STUN, which is the same as a 6d6 Normal attack.
Minor note: the flat 3 multiplier still has a higher variability than the multiple dice. This makes it better for higher levels of defense. For example, at defense 21, 2d6x3 has average damage 2.9 vs 6d6 average damage of 1.7.

In-game, this can be relevant for low-level foes. If you've got a bunch of little foes who can't get through defense on average, they are more dangerous if they've got killing attacks. I found this a little strange, since intuitively sharp attacks like swords are best against less armored foes.

Aglondir

#20
March 27, 2017, 09:37:52 PM
Quote from: Willie the Duck;953824We played Hero 6e with a similar variant:
1. There are no KA's or RKA's. Use the blast/HA scaling (1d6/5 base points).
2. There are no Resistant Defenses.
3. both stun and body damage exists, at normal prices.
4. Damage is score normally (full d6 rolls to stun; 1=0, 2-5=1, 6=2 for body damage.
5. PD protects fully against stun, and 50% to body

So the desert Eagle (now 6D6) can hit, rolling (5,2,6,6,4,2), doing 23 stun and 8 body. Your 5 PD and 6 rPD probably gets turned in for PD 14, which reduces stun damage to 7 and body damage to 1.
So as you see, it's lower lethality than normal, but doesn't have the same whatever-blow-drops-you-determines-lethality effect.
I like it. But on Step 5, is it PD only? Why not ED as well?

Christopher Brady

#21
March 27, 2017, 10:07:03 PM
Quote from: Nexus;953835I thought M and M used Damage Saves?

I meant in the way that 'Damage is Damage, it's up to the GM or player to decide if they're killing someone or not.' sense.  The mechanics differ, but the intent is what I was talking about.
"And now, my friends, a Dragon\'s toast!  To life\'s little blessings:  wars, plagues and all forms of evil.  Their presence keeps us alert --- and their absence makes us grateful." -T.A. Barron[/SIZE]

Darrin Kelley

#22
March 27, 2017, 10:13:23 PM
M&M 3rd Edition relies only on Damage Saves.

M&M 2nd Edition had the option for those who felt more comfortable with Hit Points to be able to use that option. It was in the main rulebook.

As for lethal damage. It's not considered the default. It's not the assumed most common damage type. And there-for takes special effort and specific intent for a character in M&M to kill.
 

Armchair Gamer

#23
March 27, 2017, 10:34:27 PM
Quote from: Darrin Kelley;953916M&M 3rd Edition relies only on Damage Saves.

M&M 2nd Edition had the option for those who felt more comfortable with Hit Points to be able to use that option. It was in the main rulebook.

As for lethal damage. It's not considered the default. It's not the assumed most common damage type. And there-for takes special effort and specific intent for a character in M&M to kill.

   Hit Points are in the 2E Mastermind's Manual (and I keep thinking of using them, several other options in that book, and 2E in general to build a "D&D That Never Was"); the core book contains a distinction between Lethal and Nonlethal Damage, with lethal damage adding a second track of conditions on failed damage saves. The default is assumed to be nonlethal.

   3E makes no difference between lethal and nonlethal damage types in the core rulebook, but includes the lethal damage rules from 2E in the Gamemaster's Guide.

Willie the Duck

#24
March 28, 2017, 07:57:56 AM
Quote from: Aglondir;953912I like it. But on Step 5, is it PD only? Why not ED as well?

The same would be true for ED. I only referred to PD because our example was a desert eagle.

Nexus

#25
March 28, 2017, 09:32:25 AM
Quote from: Christopher Brady;953915I meant in the way that 'Damage is Damage, it's up to the GM or player to decide if they're killing someone or not.' sense.  The mechanics differ, but the intent is what I was talking about.

Thanks!
Remember when Illinois Nazis where a joke in the Blue Brothers movie?

Democracy, meh? (538)

 "The salient fact of American politics is that there are fifty to seventy million voters each of whom will volunteer to live, with his family, in a cardboard box under an overpass, and cook sparrows on an old curtain rod, if someone would only guarantee that the black, gay, Hispanic, liberal, whatever, in the next box over doesn't even have a curtain rod, or a sparrow to put on it."

Nexus

#26
March 28, 2017, 09:44:58 AM Last Edit: March 29, 2017, 05:09:51 PM by Nexus
Quote from: Aglondir;953884How does it work? Say I have a Desert Eagle (2d6 RKA).

Sorry, that wasn't very clear.

For a Desert Eagle (DC 6 2d6 Klling), for example

1 Roll the Damage Class in dice like a Normal Attack
2 Stun equals the face value of the dice as usual
3. Body is calculated as usual but is multiplied before its applied to the appropriate Resistant Defense Rill d3
    1    Body x1
    2    Body x1.5
    3    Body x2

4. Knockback is determined from the unmodified Body.

For Heroic games. step 3 might not be required. I'm still tinkering with the idea.

So a Desert Eagle under these rules would inflict: 9 Body and 21 Stun stopped by Resistant Defense (or total Defense in some cases). Slightly more Body with the potential maxing out much more easily than a Normal attack.
Remember when Illinois Nazis where a joke in the Blue Brothers movie?

Democracy, meh? (538)

 "The salient fact of American politics is that there are fifty to seventy million voters each of whom will volunteer to live, with his family, in a cardboard box under an overpass, and cook sparrows on an old curtain rod, if someone would only guarantee that the black, gay, Hispanic, liberal, whatever, in the next box over doesn't even have a curtain rod, or a sparrow to put on it."

Aglondir

#27
March 30, 2017, 10:57:45 PM
Quote from: Nexus;953971Sorry, that wasn't very clear.
For Heroic games. step 3 might not be required. I'm still tinkering with the idea.
Not a fan of step 3. Don't want another step; don't want to roll a d3. It's why I dislike the original KA mechanic. But otherwise, it's good.

Aglondir

#29
March 30, 2017, 11:01:40 PM
Quote from: Willie the Duck;953959The same would be true for ED. I only referred to PD because our example was a desert eagle.

Cool.
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