Quote from: daniel_ream;492930Owning the company doesn't mean you own the IP though.  The IP is a product you can sell or lease.

Sure. What I mean is: he's the owner, but he's "leaving" the company. Seems a little weird, but maybe there's a tax reason for it.

Heck, you need more than one person just to carry around the rule books.

Quote from: Elliot Wilen;492926Thanks. What I still don't quite get: I thought Steve Long was part-owner of Hero Games.

He was, along with Darren Watts, as DOJ Inc.
I imagine Jason bought in, and now has bought them out.

Quote from: daniel_ream;492930Novastar, I know about the IP deal, it's just that I don't think that the Champions Universe has ever really had much value as IP.  The characters in it aren't very original and there's no great plotlines to mine.  It's just a bunch of background snippets scattered through sourcebooks and kept deliberately vague so GMs can insert their own ideas.  I can't see any reason Cryptic would go after it - rather than developing it in house or hiring some actual comics writers - unless there was a fan on staff.

It may have very well been that, or a "ah crap, we need a 13th hour Hail Mary. Who's willing to sell a Superhero IP on the cheap, and not want overriding content control?"

I'm not as plugged into comics as I once was, I'll admit. Beyond Marvel & DC (maybe Dark Horse), I'm not sure who'd you go to, to mine for a Superhero IP with Brand Recognition anymore.

I'd note that Champions on-line went F2P a heck of a lot quicker, than Star Trek on-line has (slated for January, IIRC).

Quote from: Tetsubo;492938Heck, you need more than one person just to carry around the rule books.

For HERO?

Not really. Pretty much all of it's in the big heavy "stops bullets" main book.
If you're playing a certain type of game, it might be nice to bring one or two with you for reference.

Palladium? Now THAT'S a different story...
(and I say that as a Palladium fanboy)

(and it should be noted HERO Games provides pretty much their entire catalogue on PDF, so the tech-minded among us make carrying books A LOT easier.)

I think the main problem with Champions is that people are too stupid to play it. Speaking as someone who has had two campaigns die on the table, i include myself in that statement. Beyond that, if you can't maintain your initial level of enthusiasm for character building, and I could not, it's never going to work for you.
I will say, though, when I held that first edition rule book in my hands back in the 80's I was as excited as I've ever been about an RPG.
I feel a bit of sympathy for those that are attracted to the more complex rule sets, this is not a good time for them.

Quote from: Aos;492942I think the main problem with Champions is that people are too stupid to play it. Speaking as someone who has had two campaigns die on the table, i include myself in that statement. Beyond that, if you can't maintain your initial level of enthusiasm for character building, and I could not, it's never going to work for you.
I will say, though, when I held that first edition rule book in my hands back in the 80's I was as excited as I've ever been about an RPG.
I feel a bit of sympathy for those that are attracted to the more complex rule sets, this is not a good time for them.

There's this crew I know, who play nothing but Champions/Hero. The way they talked about their campaigns made it sound super cool. So, when their GM was down in my neck of the woods, a game was organized. It was the most tedious thing I ever played. I'm a competent player but the whole thing was draggy and made up of moments where the GM had to explain stuff. It was not that he was a bad GM or anything but I reckon' you have to be familiar with the system to make it fly. The problem from my point of view is that even the basic stuff was beyond me and the rest of the players.

The funny thing is I think some of their supplements are great and have been of great use in many of my games. There's stuff in them that's well thought out and very useful to gamers generally. Just not the system, IMO.

On a totally unrelated note, I keep reading this thread as, Hero goes down on one person.

Regards,
David R

Quote from: Aos;492942I think the main problem with Champions is that people are too stupid to play it. Speaking as someone who has had two campaigns die on the table, i include myself in that statement. Beyond that, if you can't maintain your initial level of enthusiasm for character building, and I could not, it's never going to work for you.
I will say, though, when I held that first edition rule book in my hands back in the 80's I was as excited as I've ever been about an RPG.
I feel a bit of sympathy for those that are attracted to the more complex rule sets, this is not a good time for them.

As a huge fan of Champions/Hero System...let me just say you're 100% right.

Well, this whole business just put Hero (which I haven't played since the Big Blue Book) on my radar again and I just ordered the two 6e core books and Fantasy Hero...funny how I usually get into games just as they are disappearing :-)

Quote from: estar;492828My experience mirrors yours.

At the table the RPGs has always depended on quality referees.  If the industry can get gamers excited about refereeing RPGs along with an effective way to teach these gamers to be good referee things would be a lot better. Probably not a boom but neither would it be have the aura of decline.

There's not only the 'aura of decline' but the fact that you can't have veteran gamers with a good library unless they are in an environment where they're attracted to a lot of games and will build up said library.

JG

Quote from: David R;492944On a totally unrelated note, I keep reading this thread as, Hero goes down on one person.

Going down on more than one person is harder than you'd think.


Don't ask how I know this.
I just do.

JG

Quote from: James Gillen;492996Going down on more than one person is harder than you'd think.


Don't ask how I know this.
I just do.

JG

Depends on whether you take it as a skill or a power.

For me HERO 5th Sidekick + cheap supplements filled a niche GURPS left behind for cheap & thorough rules & genre books when it moved to full color expensive hardbacks from 3rd to 4th edition.

Since HERO 6th went to full color expensive hardbacks I've not bothered. I doubt I'm the only one.

Also ICONS is doing just fine for me Supers gaming wise currently.

Quote from: Casey777;493068For me HERO 5th Sidekick + cheap supplements filled a niche GURPS left behind for cheap & thorough rules & genre books when it moved to full color expensive hardbacks from 3rd to 4th edition.

Since HERO 6th went to full color expensive hardbacks I've not bothered. I doubt I'm the only one.

Also ICONS is doing just fine for me Supers gaming wise currently.

Well, they're planning on putting the core books out again, but probably in black&white, so they'll probably be cheaper for you.

As for the complexity of the rules - They've been summarized down to two pages, and people tell me the summary is useful, so...

...If I did that right, the one without a background should be attached to this post.

Quote from: Narf the Mouse;493114Well, they're planning on putting the core books out again, but probably in black&white, so they'll probably be cheaper for you.

As for the complexity of the rules - They've been summarized down to two pages, and people tell me the summary is useful, so...

...If I did that right, the one without a background should be attached to this post.

Your summary looks great, but a huge part of the complexity is hardwired into character generation, which with games like HERO is either something you love or hate.

Quote from: David R;492944The funny thing is I think some of their supplements are great and have been of great use in many of my games. There's stuff in them that's well thought out and very useful to gamers generally. Just not the system, IMO.

I'd tend to agree. I don't know the business but maybe there would be opportunities for Hero Games to reinvent itself as a third party publisher and reskin their classic settings and adventure for some of the more popular system. M&M, ICONS and BASH all seem to get quite a lot of third party support; Vigilance Press seems to be specialised in this market.

What I do know that I've just started playing in an ICONS campaign set in the Champions universe with the GM planning to take us through "Foxbat for President" and "Battlegrounds".