I'd like a world with no major gods of agriculture, the sun, etc. Instead, people worship heroes. The big time generals and conqueror kings actually ascend to heaven and grant spells to their priests. If a culture is destroyed, its gods are forgotten and go away.
This would give a very good reason for adventurers to exist. If they become famous enough, they could literally become gods. Not to mention minor gods that maybe saved a village. They could become demigods, even if their power only extended to that small area.
Something like Glorantha, but with no Yelm or Orlanth. Just local heroes who done good.
Villains would also attain god status, based upon the fear people felt of them. If everyone is scared of Atilla wiping them out, he could very well become a god.
My memory's a little fuzzy, but I think this was represented somewhat by the Mystaran Immortals, and BECMI line (the latter stages). If a hero accomplished enough (i.e. reached 36th level) they could transition to immortality through some form of apotheosis. They would be aligned with some sphere that had ties to their alignment.
It's been a hell of a long time since I've read the D&D Master set, though. I remember there being some guidelines when it came to worshipers and conflicts between Immortals. I never owned or read the Immortals set so I don't know where they took it from there.
Quote from: K Peterson;628638My memory's a little fuzzy, but I think this was represented somewhat by the Mystaran Immortals, and BECMI line (the latter stages). If a hero accomplished enough (i.e. reached 36th level) they could transition to immortality through some form of apotheosis. They would be aligned with some sphere that had ties to their alignment.
It's been a hell of a long time since I've read the D&D Master set, though. I remember there being some guidelines when it came to worshipers and conflicts between Immortals. I never owned or read the Immortals set so I don't know where they took it from there.
That's been my impression, as well (and it's definitely the one I'm going with). There are a whole slew of "canonical" immortals (ones that have been mentioned in print), but the materials make it clear that there are hundreds more. IMC, any isolated village that's been standing a few hundred years will likely as not have a "patron hero" or two (the same way the Traladarans as a people have Halav and his companions as patron heroes). This also lets me tell my players "just make some shit up if you like".
(As an aside, I really like how some of the Mystaran immortal are portrayed as "not quite what they seem" - I
love the idea that some of them were typical goofy player characters before their ascension.)
Isn't that sort of the case in many real world mythologies, though? It's just we've largely forgotten their origins.
Companion/Master sets did have rules to ascend. They were a lot more demanding than I would think is worthwhile. Good base ideas, though.
Quote from: JeremyR;628664Isn't that sort of the case in many real world mythologies, though? It's just we've largely forgotten their origins.
Yes, it very much is.
RPGPundit
The Greeks and Romans had deified heroes, as did the Celts, although I think they were probably treated differently. China had its fair share of immortal heroes, not sure about Japan, but I'm guessing they probably had a few.
I'm gonna be amped the first time my group wanders into a village that has a shrine to Mike the Fighter.
I always considered demi-gods from AD&D pretty much exactly this type of character fulfillment, à la Iuz, Rudd, Wastri, Zagyg, Zuoken.
Quote from: soltakss;628883The Greeks and Romans had deified heroes, as did the Celts, although I think they were probably treated differently. China had its fair share of immortal heroes, not sure about Japan, but I'm guessing they probably had a few.
I think what was being implied here is something historically deeper than that: which is that quite a few ancient gods were actually at some point in the distant past based on historical persons. Others, of course, never were.
RPGPundit
Quote from: DestroyYouAlot;628926I'm gonna be amped the first time my group wanders into a village that has a shrine to Mike the Fighter.
http://firefly.wikia.com/wiki/Hero_of_Canton
That Firefly episode was pretty damn awesome.
For something to compare to, in our world:
Attila and Caesar would be gods, though fading in power.
Patton, Eisenhower, and Rommel would all be gods (varying in power). I include Rommel because there are a LOT of WW2 buffs who think he was great. Guderian and company may also have some power, but they never had the media Rommel did.
Not sure if I would include any really recent generals (Schwarzkopf, etc), since they were very successful, yet their wars didn't exactly reach the scale of the World Wars.
For villains, Hitler, Stalin, and Mao would all be gods, and quite powerful. Heck, they been dead for decades yet everyone still trots them out as the biggest bads ever.
Quote from: James Gillen;629365http://firefly.wikia.com/wiki/Hero_of_Canton
Perfect. (I especially love Jayne's hat.)
(http://www.austinbrowncoats.com/Jaynehats/wp-content/themes/oriental/images/jayne-hat.jpg)
Here's the interesting question: does hero-worship empower the Hero himself, or does it create a divine simulacra?
If it empowers the Hero, their God isn't who they think he is. (As with Jayne.)
If it creates a new being who embodies who they think the hero is, then the hero will encounter a being that's like him, but superhuman, with a different personality, and the capability of powering priests and miracles.
A-w-k-w-a-r-d...
And if the villain (ala Mao) is a divine simulacra, how long until they send out agents to hunt down their mortal inspiration?
And if the mortal inspiration was an inverse Jayne, a hero mistaken for a villain, what happens when the mortal hero faces a Divinity, who's a malign reflection of themselves?
Quote from: Daddy Warpig;629567Here's the interesting question: does hero-worship empower the Hero himself, or does it create a divine simulacra?
If it empowers the Hero, their God isn't who they think he is. (As with Jayne.)
If it creates a new being who embodies who they think the hero is, then the hero will encounter a being that's like him, but superhuman, with a different personality, and the capability of powering priests and miracles.
A-w-k-w-a-r-d...
And if the villain (ala Mao) is a divine simulacra, how long until they send out agents to hunt down their mortal inspiration?
And if the mortal inspiration was an inverse Jayne, a hero mistaken for a villain, what happens when the mortal hero faces a Divinity, who's a malign reflection of themselves?
At least in BECMI, it's a literal ascension. But the worship helps (as I understand it).
Quote from: Daddy Warpig;629567Here's the interesting question: does hero-worship empower the Hero himself, or does it create a divine simulacra?
If it empowers the Hero, their God isn't who they think he is. (As with Jayne.)
If it creates a new being who embodies who they think the hero is, then the hero will encounter a being that's like him, but superhuman, with a different personality, and the capability of powering priests and miracles.
A-w-k-w-a-r-d...
And if the villain (ala Mao) is a divine simulacra, how long until they send out agents to hunt down their mortal inspiration?
And if the mortal inspiration was an inverse Jayne, a hero mistaken for a villain, what happens when the mortal hero faces a Divinity, who's a malign reflection of themselves?
Sounds a lot like Unknown Armies' Godwalkers -- people who set off to achieve godhood by emulating an universal archetype, and have to dodge agents of the reigning gods (the Invisible Clergy) on their way to ascension.
Quote from: DestroyYouAlot;629586At least in BECMI, it's a literal ascension. But the worship helps (as I understand it).
If I remember correctly, in BECMI they might talk about the importance of followers but up to the "M" part at least, those have no effect on the actual mechanics of things (that is, it doesn't make it any easier for you to become an immortal).
RPGPundit