Quote from: James J SkachCan a system break up a group? Can a system keep a group from breaking up?

I think, I would phrase it as (based on my experience), can a system break up a group of friends? And, can a system keep a group of friends from breaking up?

NO, to both questions. I think you phrased it pretty well here:

QuoteI agree that system is important, but IMHO only in the sense that it serves the group.

(bolding mine)

System only makes the play experience of a functional group of gamers (friends, in my case) more awesome. It can neither destroy nor save a dysfunctional group.

I think the point is; that the activity part in the term social activity, serves the social, not the other way around....(that sounded a bit dodgy...I'll try again some other time )

Regards,
David R

Quote from: James J Skachbut would a system break up your group?

It hasn't happened yet! Like David says, a system wouldn't break up a group of friends. However, I can imagine something like this happening:

- We play Game X.
- Player B starts to struggle, but tries to adapt because the GM likes the rules so much. He wants to give this a fair shot and have a good time.
- He realizes he's not having that much fun for the effort, and there's this poker game that he'd rather join.
- He and the GM have a nice mature talk, and they give him a smooth exit out of the storyline. They're still friends of course, but player B isn't playing in this game. They might play again in the future, perhaps for Game Y.
- The game is slightly "broken up", in the sense that it couldn't continue with all its original players.

Does this sound as a place where system choice could break/save a group?

Quote from: David RI think the point is; that the activity part in the term social activity, serves the social, not the other way around....(that sounded a bit dodgy...I'll try again some other time )

Regards,
David R

Blatant Cheetoism, David! I think that's illegal in the US and most of western Europe.

-clash

Quote from: flyingmiceBlatant Cheetoism, David! I think that's illegal in the US and most of western Europe.

-clash

Didn't you get the memo ? :

QuoteOriginally posted by RPGPrundit

If anything, theRPGsite is like the Revolutionary-era American Colonies. We have staked out our independence, survive against all odds, and are determined that our goal to stand up for liberty, truth, and a better system of Forum governance will prevail.

I mean Swine free or Dice Hard  

Regards,
David R

Quote from: jrientsQuestions for everyone:

The awesomest GM you've ever known offers to run a one shot for you and your best buds.  The problem is that he's running a system that you hate.  What do you do?  Now if we're talking about a campaign instead of a one-shot, does that change your answer?

Well, it depends. If I sit down with the GM and the other players and raise my concerns about the system, is the GM willing to tweak/replace the system to allay my concerns? (Assuming the other players are cool with that, of course). If he is, then I'm no longer playing with a bad system; if he refuses to countenance the idea, I'm not sure he's as awesome as you make him out to be.

Quote from: TonyLBI'm saying that every system does, in fact, help set the stage in terms of what people notice and what they don't.

For instance, D&D makes it very easy for a group to talk about players who are acting counter to the overall benefit of the group:  you can say "Hey man, your bone-headed fireball spell cost us fifty hit points, party-wide, that time!  What the hell is up with that?"

Why is that whenever Tony talks about D&D he sounds like one of those youth pastors who is trying to get hip with the kids?

Quote from: RPGPunditI recently conceived of something that clarified this whole subject to me.  In a recent livejournal debate (that's linked in my blog), a Swine user made the argument along the lines that "a bad RPG system being run by a great GM is still going to be worse than a great RPG system run by a bad GM".  And of course, I think this is utter bullshit.

As the supposed Swine user, I am still waiting for you to show where I said this (so I can retract it).

QuoteI think there's a difference between rational people who have said "Hey, you know what, system matters!", that being something one can agree with; and nutjob Theory Swine who have taken that to mean "system is ALL that matters".

I would like to see you cite where anyone has even implied this.

QuoteIts from there that they become obsessed with creating systems that try to eliminate the GM from the equation as much as possible.  Its a flawed seed of logic that has led to a disaster of epic proportions.

Dude, step outside for a while. The introduction of Director's Stance and the distribution of traditional GM tasks to players has not been a disaster of epic proportions. It really hasn't.

QuoteOf course, system DOES matter. But only slightly.  A Great GM running a crappy system will still, ANY TIME, be able to make a more enjoyable than a Bad GM running a perfectly-built System.  System matters, therefore, only in the sense that a Great GM running a Great system will be better than a Great GM running a crappy system.

Which is what I said in the first place. Thank you.

Quote from: Elliot WilenFunny thing is, after reading some of the writings of the dude who made the initial dumb claim,

Which I really wish someone could show where I made it.

QuoteI also think that (rather typically) he misunderstands GNS, at least I find that hinted in this review of Herowars.

When I wrote that review, I certainly did misunderstand GNS - it was a quite a while ago and I was still in the game balance vs simulation-realism dichotomy. I really didn't understand narrativism at all. It took one of the "rules consultants" to Hero Wars to drum it into me.

Quote from: RPGPunditI recently conceived of something that clarified this whole subject to me.  In a recent livejournal debate (that's linked in my blog), a Swine user made the argument along the lines that "a bad RPG system being run by a great GM is still going to be worse than a great RPG system run by a bad GM".  And of course, I think this is utter bullshit.

I just wanted to say that I agree. I know I'm a day late and a dollar short here, but i can't imagine a game where the players and the game master weren't more important than the rules or system.

In fact I can't think of a single rule or system requirement that can't be disregarded completely in the interest of fun, and our enjoyment.

Quote from: lev_lafayetteWhich I really wish someone could show where I made it.

You didn't, it turns out. Your comment over in that LJ was just worded poorly. When you add in the cites to Forge sources, it then became all too easy for people to read you as representing some of the more extreme positions taken by Forge adherents.