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Help? Planet maps and Starfleet Pay per month...

Started by Koltar, May 01, 2023, 10:03:19 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Koltar

Hi there,
I am still running that Star Trek RPG campaign using GURPS 4/e.

Okay, sometimes I use old FASA 'Star Trek' if it helps fill a gap.
A few sessions ago a player asked how much their Starfleet characters get 'paid' for what they do. I knew there was a chart or table of their monthly pay - because I had seen it years ago.

After searching I discovered it was in the old FASA book "Trader Captains And MERCHANT PRINCES". My old copy I had broken apart, put all the pages in a three-hole punch and it was saved in a 3-ring - Ecept the darn page I need is missing!!!

According to contents page the chart I want is on page 44.

Does anyone still have that book? Could scan that page and send it to me as a jpeg or a pdf? Or maybe just type up the rewlevant info and post it here?

PLANET MAPS - The another thing I need for my game are those blank planetmap sheets that were always used for games like TRAVELLER, Star Trek the Role Playing Games, and 'GURPS: Space. Usually half the pasge had that blank world map that would liuke a twenty sided die if you taped it together. (Did that one time)

Anyone have a link for a jpeg or pdf of that sort of thing?

Thanks in advance,
-Ed C.
The return of \'You can\'t take the Sky From me!\'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUn-eN8mkDw&feature=rec-fresh+div

This is what a really cool FANTASY RPG should be like :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-WnjVUBDbs

Still here, still alive, at least Seven years now...

GeekyBugle

Don't have the book, but maybe this can help you: https://wiki.fed-space.com/index.php?title=Star_Fleet_Pay_Scale

I don't understand the other request tho.
Quote from: Rhedyn

Here is why this forum tends to be so stupid. Many people here think Joe Biden is "The Left", when he is actually Far Right and every US republican is just an idiot.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."

― George Orwell

GeekyBugle

My Google-Fu and Har Har matey remains undefeated!

Managed to download the page you need (it's the only one? I could download a few others.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/11j_P1XUsVdsmCiFEtUOe2dPZwCkaTkU-/view?usp=sharing
Quote from: Rhedyn

Here is why this forum tends to be so stupid. Many people here think Joe Biden is "The Left", when he is actually Far Right and every US republican is just an idiot.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."

― George Orwell

Koltar

Quote from: GeekyBugle on May 01, 2023, 11:00:26 PM
My Google-Fu and Har Har matey remains undefeated!

Managed to download the page you need (it's the only one? I could download a few others.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/11j_P1XUsVdsmCiFEtUOe2dPZwCkaTkU-/view?usp=sharing


Yay! and Qapla'! - That IS the page I am missing. Small problem - when I 'print' the page only the left hand side or column prints - it cut off the right hand side of the page.

-Ed C.
The return of \'You can\'t take the Sky From me!\'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUn-eN8mkDw&feature=rec-fresh+div

This is what a really cool FANTASY RPG should be like :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-WnjVUBDbs

Still here, still alive, at least Seven years now...


GeekyBugle

Quote from: Koltar on May 01, 2023, 11:23:24 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on May 01, 2023, 11:00:26 PM
My Google-Fu and Har Har matey remains undefeated!

Managed to download the page you need (it's the only one? I could download a few others.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/11j_P1XUsVdsmCiFEtUOe2dPZwCkaTkU-/view?usp=sharing


Yay! and Qapla'! - That IS the page I am missing. Small problem - when I 'print' the page only the left hand side or column prints - it cut off the right hand side of the page.

-Ed C.

Well, that's weird.

I bet there's at least one other page you're missing the one on the other side of page 44, so it's page 43 or 45, if you tell me which I can upload it as a pdf and send it to you.
Quote from: Rhedyn

Here is why this forum tends to be so stupid. Many people here think Joe Biden is "The Left", when he is actually Far Right and every US republican is just an idiot.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."

― George Orwell

Koltar

Quote from: GeekyBugle on May 01, 2023, 11:44:15 PM


Well, that's weird.

I bet there's at least one other page you're missing the one on the other side of page 44, so it's page 43 or 45, if you tell me which I can upload it as a pdf and send it to you.

That would be ' Page 43 ' - if you send that one or post it that would be Wonderrful.

The way the book lays out in my three ring binder the odd numbered pages were the 'front' or top of each page and the even numbered pages were the back or bottom side of each sheet.

-Ed C.
The return of \'You can\'t take the Sky From me!\'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUn-eN8mkDw&feature=rec-fresh+div

This is what a really cool FANTASY RPG should be like :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-WnjVUBDbs

Still here, still alive, at least Seven years now...

GeekyBugle

Quote from: Koltar on May 02, 2023, 12:00:36 AM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on May 01, 2023, 11:44:15 PM


Well, that's weird.

I bet there's at least one other page you're missing the one on the other side of page 44, so it's page 43 or 45, if you tell me which I can upload it as a pdf and send it to you.

That would be ' Page 43 ' - if you send that one or post it that would be Wonderrful.

The way the book lays out in my three ring binder the odd numbered pages were the 'front' or top of each page and the even numbered pages were the back or bottom side of each sheet.

-Ed C.

Well, IF I'm not mistaken this is the page 43, please tell me if I'm wrong or if you need another page. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1P-MDLQsgG84hwT4zAWubtvtXYKw6JbcD/view?usp=share_link
Quote from: Rhedyn

Here is why this forum tends to be so stupid. Many people here think Joe Biden is "The Left", when he is actually Far Right and every US republican is just an idiot.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."

― George Orwell

Rhymer88

Monthly pay? I thought the Federation didn't even have money anymore.

estar

#9
Quote from: Rhymer88 on May 02, 2023, 06:55:12 AM
Monthly pay? I thought the Federation didn't even have money anymore.
That is a point of dispute among fandom.

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Federation_credit

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Money

The TOS Era didn't have replicators although they had industrial fabricators and food processors. TNG era Federation was definitely presented as a post-scarcity society.

The details are thin so there are lots of hand-wavium. Also, it didn't help that the how of how a post scarcity economy among science fiction authors would work only jellied well into the run of TNG.

Also, this is a pretty concise description of the issues. Look under Live Action
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PostScarcityEconomy

As the article above points out, the Orville has a more consistent and better realized take on the "No Money in the future" trope. One that I would use if I was to incorporate it into a Star Trek style campaign.




GeekyBugle

Yeah, the Orville went form "primitive" capitalism to really futuristic company store and bartering...
Quote from: Rhedyn

Here is why this forum tends to be so stupid. Many people here think Joe Biden is "The Left", when he is actually Far Right and every US republican is just an idiot.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."

― George Orwell

estar

Quote from: GeekyBugle on May 02, 2023, 01:02:37 PM
Yeah, the Orville went form "primitive" capitalism to really futuristic company store and bartering...
That is not how it works. As far as physical goods go everything is replicated on demand from basic materials for leisure and living. The only scarcity are people's time and specific locations for use for work, play, or living.

Any project that requires a team of people working together will have to be organized. This means that folks will have to be convinced to put their time into the project. The wealthy, so to speak, are those who are charismatic, and organized enough to create these teams.

The system will have troubles but the result will be as hard for us to imagine as life today would be for a 18th century Irish peasant.

The OSR today represents a tiny slice of what this would be like. The combination of the availability of digital technology and the availability of creative content means the biggest constraint is someone's time. It is not quite post-scarcity for RPG Book publishing due to the need to have internet access and a computer. But it is one of the closest examples we got.


jhkim

Quote from: estar on May 02, 2023, 08:05:41 AM
Quote from: Rhymer88 on May 02, 2023, 06:55:12 AM
Monthly pay? I thought the Federation didn't even have money anymore.

Also, this is a pretty concise description of the issues. Look under Live Action
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PostScarcityEconomy

As the article above points out, the Orville has a more consistent and better realized take on the "No Money in the future" trope. One that I would use if I was to incorporate it into a Star Trek style campaign.

I ran my Star Trek campaigns - mostly but not always in the time period of the original series. There, my take was that there was private property within Earth and Star Fleet -- but given the very different economic systems of the Federation, there was no universal Federation currency and no simple table of exchange rates of different systems. Hence no "money". Instead, AI handling meant that barter could be handled smoothly. No one had to have headaches managing their portfolios. They just would express their priorities to a computer and it could trade accordingly.

Many Federation worlds were post-scarcity in the sense that anyone could choose not to work and still have a comfortable life, but not all. For example, this was not true on Bajor (the planet nearest to Deep Space 9).

I did make it clear that Federation officers were extremely elite and even low-level officers could be effectively rich if they chose to leave at any point. They're just very dedicated to the cause, and encouraged not to throw their wealth around.

GeekyBugle

Quote from: estar on May 02, 2023, 01:37:12 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on May 02, 2023, 01:02:37 PM
Yeah, the Orville went form "primitive" capitalism to really futuristic company store and bartering...
That is not how it works. As far as physical goods go everything is replicated on demand from basic materials for leisure and living. The only scarcity are people's time and specific locations for use for work, play, or living.

Any project that requires a team of people working together will have to be organized. This means that folks will have to be convinced to put their time into the project. The wealthy, so to speak, are those who are charismatic, and organized enough to create these teams.

The system will have troubles but the result will be as hard for us to imagine as life today would be for a 18th century Irish peasant.

The OSR today represents a tiny slice of what this would be like. The combination of the availability of digital technology and the availability of creative content means the biggest constraint is someone's time. It is not quite post-scarcity for RPG Book publishing due to the need to have internet access and a computer. But it is one of the closest examples we got.

So one could do NOTHING productive or of value to society and still be able to live comfortably, on the work and effort of those who DO work... That's called slavery. Unless you do have to work, in which case it's the company store.

And when dealing with different cultures you have to resort to the very futuristic means of exchange called bartering.

Even in fantasy socialism doesn't work.

The OSR (with very few notable exceptions) is a capitalist/libertarian thing, unless Sine Nomine is sharing his income with those who don't sell shit?
Quote from: Rhedyn

Here is why this forum tends to be so stupid. Many people here think Joe Biden is "The Left", when he is actually Far Right and every US republican is just an idiot.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."

― George Orwell

jhkim

Quote from: GeekyBugle on May 02, 2023, 02:00:39 PM
Quote from: estar on May 02, 2023, 01:37:12 PM
That is not how it works. As far as physical goods go everything is replicated on demand from basic materials for leisure and living. The only scarcity are people's time and specific locations for use for work, play, or living.

So one could do NOTHING productive or of value to society and still be able to live comfortably, on the work and effort of those who DO work... That's called slavery. Unless you do have to work, in which case it's the company store.

How I portrayed post-scarcity economies in my Star Trek games, in theory everyone could do nothing productive, and everyone could still live comfortably -- because automation is sufficient to handle all tasks including maintenance. There are no menial tasks that are necessary for society to function.

Relevant for the game -- it was part of the Star Fleet mindset that it was easily possible to fully automate starships so that they could run with almost no people except the commander. However, the mindset of officers is that they preferred to go and do things by hand where practical.

Allowed a life of luxury, most people prefer being productive. They got satisfaction from it, and they were rewarded for their efforts in prestige, perks, and gifts.