Hey folks,

I'm running my first Deadlands game even though I've been RPGing for over twenty years. I've never been a big fan of the Western due to my own issues with the fact as a historian, I know it was a pretty unheroic and unromantic time as well as surprisingly short. Still, I love the period and horror so I was inclined to give it a shot since my players have been aching for doing one.

I'm interested in any advice from those who love the genre as to what they found most interesting about it and why. Also, what they would recommend as pretty typical adventures in the setting and what would be good resources for developing it. I have a couple of ideas, including wholesale ripping off Red Dead Redemption but am open to suggestions.

I'm thinking of setting it in 1890 on the verge of the Old West dying but not quite there yet. I'm also going to have the Confederacy having kept slavery (which means they "won" the war) but being completely beaten up by disease, monsters, and worse since slavery is like a gigantic dinner bell for the Reckoners. Which, admittedly, really changes the nature of the timeline.

Speaking for me and my group, we loved the horror and (somewhat cheesy at times) western feel and didn't care about the steampunk aspects, so ghost rock and wacky inventions didn't play a huge roll in our campaign. They were still there in the setting but we only ever had one mad scientist and there weren't a lot of infernal devices used.

The Plot Point Campaigns are fairly good overall. The Last Sons is easily my favorite, though when I ran it I switched the roles of Sitting Bull and Crazy Horse as I just can't see things playing out like they do in the campaign. The Blood Drive adventures are a lot of fun, too, if you've got a group actually interested in playing cowboys since they have to herd cattle while dealing with other stuff.

Of course, anything you use may have to be modified since you're changing the setting, but you'll know that going in. If that's something you want to avoid, you'll probably want to set your game as far west as possible. The Flood could be a good starting point since everything about the North and South is mostly background while the party runs around the Maze and gets into trouble.

Speaking of the Plot Point Campaigns, I'm curious which ones you guys would recommend. I've heard good things about them and I own "Rippers" from the Savage Worlds series so I know how they work.

I only have the main book currently and cultural osmosis.

Is there any one which results in you getting to take down Stone?

One reason I didn't play the original game was because the original series made the bad guys invincible.

Quote from: CTPhipps;913714Speaking of the Plot Point Campaigns, I'm curious which ones you guys would recommend. I've heard good things about them and I own "Rippers" from the Savage Worlds series so I know how they work.

I only have the main book currently and cultural osmosis.

Is there any one which results in you getting to take down Stone?

One reason I didn't play the original game was because the original series made the bad guys invincible.

Each Plot Point Campaign is set in chronological order and is designed to showcase the downfall of one of the primary servitors of the Reckoners (although that downfall isn't always completely final). You could technically run through all of them with a single group but that would take an extremely long time and they aren't really designed for that; your party would be very, very experienced by the time you started the third campaign, which would require some adjustments.

The Flood is first and takes place on the west coast, primarily in the Great Maze. It deals with Lost Angels and Reverend Grimme, though the party won't actually spend much time there. Of the major plot point campaigns, it's the one that's most open because it's up to the GM to come up with some of the adventures in the middle of the campaign. There are a lot of locations detailed and since the action takes place in the Maze it offers up the chance for some heroics out on the water, which can otherwise be rare in a typical Deadlands game.

The Last Sons is second and my personal favorite. It's focused around Raven's attempts to stir up trouble in the Sioux Nation and features some other historical figures like Custer, Sitting Bull, and Crazy Horse. But it also goes into the surrounding states and the party will have to do a lot of traveling. Since Raven is War's servitor, that's the big theme of the campaign so it lends itself to bigger action sequences than the others, and I think the finale is the most epic as far as long-lasting payoff is concerned.

Stone and a Hard Place is the most recent one and deals with the party's interactions with Stone. So, yes, Stone will die in the end. But you might not really like the way things turn out (or the incredibly high NPC body count that Stone piles up along the way), so of all the campaigns it's probably the one that gets changed the most by GMs when they run it.

Just my opinion but the 'cheesy' factor of the setting starts off kind of entertaining and rapidly progresses to annoying and then vomitus over time. Weird West Horror is an awesome environment for a game but Deadlands takes it WAY over the top with the horror element becoming so commonplace. (Towns run by vampires, undead rail construction crews, government agencies specializing in hunting monsters and the like) Play it long enough and it loses something, something BIG. Its not scary anymore, at all. Couple that with the exaggerated Steam Punk stuff and we found it just lost us.

Our group decided unanimously to leave it behind, move the campaign to a more historical setting and never look back.

My advise would be to play, but TONE IT DOWN!

Thanks for the info, Brand55.

Quote from: rgrove0172;913750Just my opinion but the 'cheesy' factor of the setting starts off kind of entertaining and rapidly progresses to annoying and then vomitus over time. Weird West Horror is an awesome environment for a game but Deadlands takes it WAY over the top with the horror element becoming so commonplace. (Towns run by vampires, undead rail construction crews, government agencies specializing in hunting monsters and the like) Play it long enough and it loses something, something BIG. Its not scary anymore, at all. Couple that with the exaggerated Steam Punk stuff and we found it just lost us.

Our group decided unanimously to leave it behind, move the campaign to a more historical setting and never look back.

My advise would be to play, but TONE IT DOWN!

I confess, I have no interest in historical accuracy as a Western because the "set" path of history is such a depressing and unrelentingly grim path. The genocide of the Native American and the enforcement of the United States reign there makes it a setting which isn't exactly one which I'm too fond of. I generally prefer Science fiction and Fantasy Westerns to the Historical Ones so the idea of creating a Alt-History Fallout: New Vegas (which is what attracted to me) is more appealing than the idea of toning it down.
In fact, I'm not exactly happy there's a Masquerade in Deadlands. I'd much prefer everyone know the supernatural is real.

What I really like about Deadlands is it took history and shot it in the face.

Which I say as a history teacher.

Quote from: CTPhipps;913782I confess, I have no interest in historical accuracy as a Western because the "set" path of history is such a depressing and unrelentingly grim path. The genocide of the Native American and the enforcement of the United States reign there makes it a setting which isn't exactly one which I'm too fond of. I generally prefer Science fiction and Fantasy Westerns to the Historical Ones so the idea of creating a Alt-History Fallout: New Vegas (which is what attracted to me) is more appealing than the idea of toning it down.
In fact, I'm not exactly happy there's a Masquerade in Deadlands. I'd much prefer everyone know the supernatural is real.

What I really like about Deadlands is it took history and shot it in the face.

Which I say as a history teacher.

Bowing out, on totally different wavelengths.... have fun!

Quote from: rgrove0172;913786Bowing out, on totally different wavelengths.... have fun!

Hey, rgrove, please don't bow out.

I love hearing alternate points of views. Different strokes for different folks and I may well be just completely wrong. I guess I'm coming at it from a Turtledove point of view that if I wanted to play a historical Western then I wouldn't be playing Deadlands. I would be playing the Old West with vampires or demons or so on. Here, I'm coming at it as something more akin to Shadowrun.

It's a completely and utterly altered timeline by an event which changes everything.

Mark Sumner's "Devil's Tower" and "Devil's Engine" are what I wanted Deadlands to be: The turning point of the Civil War had come when the bodies got up at Shiloh. Dangerous magic had risen on a flood of blood and violence, and it swept across the land, washing away all but the strong and the lucky. Unnatural powers had been loosed, and nothing would ever be the same again.
Towns out west were dying faster than mayflies in June. To survive the perils of the frontierbandits, hexes, marauders, and conjurations, folks needed a strong sheriff. And any lawman who expected to survive had better have a fast gun and a talent for magic.
Jake Bird wasn't aiming to pin any star to his chest. He had a talent, maybe a strong one. But before he could search out his future, he'd have to face his past--and stand up against the man who'd killed his father. That would mean a showdown against the most dangerous wielder of magic in all the West: General George Armstrong Custer!

My current idea for an altered timeline:

    * The South wins the Battle of Gettysburg due to their dead rising to continue to fight and Lincoln is assassinated, becoming Harrowed, only for Andrew Johnson to sign a treaty with the Confederacy.

    * The devastated South is almost immediately overwhelmed with monsters, famine, pestilance (I like the "Red Death" as a name for it), and other signs of the Reckoners actions.

    * The North and South both move out to try and secure new territories but the existence of ghost rock changes everything.

    * Texas, Nevada, and California in this universe would have strong independence movements as neither the Union or Confederacy would be all that appealing for various reasons.

    * Confederacy sympathies are low because of mismanagement, tyranny, and brutality from the Reckoner-influenced governments. This drives many settlers out West.

    * Utah IS an independent country in this version as no one would want to join either side.

    * The Underground Railroad still exists but is actively sabotaging Southern efforts with violence now as well as liberating slaves forcibly.

    * Mexico would be interested in retaking Texas as well given its own ghost rock would be financing an industrial revolution.

    * Slave catchers are a good go-to bad guy as they work in the Wild West as professional kidnappers.

    * Southern agents are desperate to get the Wild West to prop up the dying Confederacy with their resources and new slaves. Hence, the Cold War is very close to hot.

    It's still pretty rough but I think it makes a very interesting timeline which still preserves much of Deadlands.

Quote from: CTPhipps;913793Hey, rgrove, please don't bow out.

I love hearing alternate points of views. Different strokes for different folks and I may well be just completely wrong. I guess I'm coming at it from a Turtledove point of view that if I wanted to play a historical Western then I wouldn't be playing Deadlands. I would be playing the Old West with vampires or demons or so on. Here, I'm coming at it as something more akin to Shadowrun.

It's a completely and utterly altered timeline by an event which changes everything.

I gotcha, should be a great game. My group plays EVERYTHING a bit close to the vest and with a decidedly serious overtone. Deadlands was just a bit too much for our tastes, even with me toning down the crap out of it!

Quote from: rgrove0172;913806I gotcha, should be a great game. My group plays EVERYTHING a bit close to the vest and with a decidedly serious overtone. Deadlands was just a bit too much for our tastes, even with me toning down the crap out of it!

While I had an absolute blast with Deadlands Reloaded, campiness included, if I ever revisit it I'll likely present it as a straight-up horror game, maybe with some other features from games like Realms of Cthulhu or Rippers Resurrected integrated for good measure. Dial up insanity and deadliness of combat to make the game more around investigation and dealing with the true horrors that have been unleashed. Martial arts and weird science would probably be cut out entirely, while other magical options might have an additional cost in the form of hurting one's sanity or directly feeding power to the Deadlands.

Quote from: rgrove0172;913806I gotcha, should be a great game. My group plays EVERYTHING a bit close to the vest and with a decidedly serious overtone. Deadlands was just a bit too much for our tastes, even with me toning down the crap out of it!

I'd be interested in your advice then because I'm actually really-really unsure of how to play Deadlands. I just came off of a deadly serious Vampire: The Masquerade game so I'm not sure if my players want the dark and terrible west or something more light-heartedly like a historical Fallout (which is full of goofiness as well as seriousness) or something else entirely.

So, I'm really up for advice here on how you prefer your Deadlands.

Quote from: Brand55;913821While I had an absolute blast with Deadlands Reloaded, campiness included, if I ever revisit it I'll likely present it as a straight-up horror game, maybe with some other features from games like Realms of Cthulhu or Rippers Resurrected integrated for good measure. Dial up insanity and deadliness of combat to make the game more around investigation and dealing with the true horrors that have been unleashed. Martial arts and weird science would probably be cut out entirely, while other magical options might have an additional cost in the form of hurting one's sanity or directly feeding power to the Deadlands.

I like Weird Science but my ideas for it would simply be for it to underline the weirdness of the setting itself. Science in the Old West was something coming out from "elsewhere" and a sign of civilization. You could also do a lot of stuff like horrible experiments and things which just shouldnt' exist too.

I will say Martial Arts are hard to do unless you want a over-the-top silly West.

One thing I'm debating is whether to keep True FaithTM as a concept as God being GoodTM and the West as the Biblical Megiddo makes a very different sort of game to an existentialist sort of Wild West or a Lovecraftian one.