Quote from: Skyrock;789453Not issues per se, but things that can catch players on the wrong foot.

For one thing, SW runs best if run with maps and minis. It was built for that, and employs a lot of shortcuts relying on those accessories.
For example, Extras have only three health statuses: They are either OK, Shaken or Out of Action. When you use minis, you will have no bookkeeping as GM - you can just lay down the Extra mini to show to everyone that it is Shaken, and take it from the map when it is Out of Action. Play without a map, and you will miss this and other shortcuts that are what gives SW its qualities.

Well it doesn't completely make me turn my back into it but I definitely am not a detail combat oriented gamer.  Maps and minis seems to take out the role playing imagination of a fight for me nor am I so tactical.

I doubt the 3 friends that are going to play with me to be tactical combat players neither with them being first time table top players and is really sold on the role playing aspects of the genre.

I do want a good combat system just not so detailed as with minis and maps.

Thanks for this info.  Never would've guessed that a game that has so many setting and genre support to be so combat based.

Quote from: Certified;789463Looks like I made a silly mistake.

Here's the Runescape Rule set I was referring to, which is totally not Runescape at all. (Well, maybe a little...)

A Steve Jackson Game that isn't based on GURPS?

That's news to me

Quote from: TheNextDoctor;789487A Steve Jackson Game that isn't based on GURPS?

That's news to me

If you are up for card games, Steve Jackson Games has some very fun offerings like Chez Geek.

I would say try SW.

I played it at a con and after 1 game and a copy of the basic ghame a mate gave me ($10) I was able to write a complete conversion for Strontium Dogs.

the game is simple to understand, simple to play and whilst it favours minis minis are no more required than in anyother game. So if you take the status stuff for example it has 3 status but compared to D&D where a monster might have 40 HP yopu have to track + multiple status effects its a synch.

For 10 bucks its worth giving it a go and it is very flexible and expandable.

I would also agree that BRP is very easy to grasp and expand however I think it hits a limit with "super" type characters and it can get crunchy if you start trying to add layers of differentiation which is very tempting since it's so easy to plug additional bits in.

I would avoid Traveller as a generic system as everyone will be dead after your first combat. Great system but it has a certain play style.

You can use an old World of Darkness engine to play pretty much any system. Stat + Skill = dice pool + Powers is a very flexible model but using it for your needs might be a homebrew too far.

Quote from: jibbajibba;789489I would also agree that BRP is very easy to grasp and expand however I think it hits a limit with "super" type characters

Depends on your concept of 'super'... because from the discussions I've seen superheros are one of the more contentious genres for RPGs. I've run pulp-era stuff ala The Spider with no problem. I ran Superworld waybackwhen and was quite happy with it... but we weren't going for Warpsmiths/Qys levels of galactic power.

Quote from: Simlasa;789515Depends on your concept of 'super'... because from the discussions I've seen superheros are one of the more contentious genres for RPGs. I've run pulp-era stuff ala The Spider with no problem. I ran Superworld waybackwhen and was quite happy with it... but we weren't going for Warpsmiths/Qys levels of galactic power.

I do agree Supers are reasonably problematic. I am refering to the Comic book supers from X-Men, spiderman etc
If your character is an alien can fly lift buildings and so on I find the bounded 1-100 results range can be limiting.

Systems where you can exceed the target and thus add different effects (like SW, Amber's diceless engine, etc are better suited)

Quote from: TheNextDoctor;789374Well as another poster has said better than I did. I am looking for a universal toolkit system not a universal system.

Will Traveller allow for that?
Will CORPS?

I am looking for one game system where I can master and my three new players can at least familiarize themselves with so that we can run different campaigns and settings as we see fit.

player characters being just normal humans in one setting/campaign to Green Lantern/Superman superheroes to Giant Mecha fighting Godzillas.

Understanding that house rules or different toolkits (not real sure what this means) might be needed but as I've just said earlier, looking for a nice rule-set/dice mechanic.

Traveller is... iffy. It does just about anything human scaled quite well, which in game terms tends to be described as 'gritty'. I speak mostly for Mongoose Traveller, though in my estimation its a fair sample of the game.  Mongoose did adapt it to Strontium Dogs and Judge Dredd, which seems a bit redundant now that I think about it, but bog standard, out of the box, I can't see it handling anything 'Super' very well. It might be interesting to adapt the space ship rules to Mecha, perhaps.

But if you think outside the box, which Mongoose clearly has, you can do some damn interesting things just using the framework. The Free Online adventure 'Secrets of the Ancients' includes a mini-chapter where  you play posthuman demigods with a single sidebar explanation of the 'new rules'. The Dynasty book is geared for generational play, and the Merchant Princes book introduces a 'minigame' around quarterly corporate action, within the context of an otherwise ordinary adventuring party.

In short, regarding Traveller: If all you need is a robust ruleset, and you're willing to put in the work, sure, it'll do what  you want. You could say the same for most rulesets, however.


CORPS is another manner. It literally billed itself as a the Complete Omniversal Roleplaying System, which I can't help but think was aimed at GURPS in some way.  It isn't GURPS, the rules are mechanically quite different and the book is quite slim. I can't speak for EABA, which is the current incarnation if I understand it (available online, as I recall. I may have even bought it at one time, but I wouldn't swear to it!).

CORPS doesn't come with a setting, it is really nothing more than a framework on which to build your setting/game, though there are some elements that are provided, such as basic weapon lists, advantages and flaws, not all of which are appropriate for every game... but a much, much MUCH smaller list than GURPS, and of course, Skills.  Again: Not sure how well it would handle Mecha, but magic and super powers, or angelic miracles (I'm most familiar with Unisystem from Armaggedon...) just fine.

Given that you mentioned Mecha, you might be best served starting from a good game system that supports Mecha organically (seeing as that is likely to be the most technically difficult rule set to integrate), and adding rules for magic and super powers to it. For that I'd go with Dream Pod 9, say Heavy Gear or Jovian Chronicles.

Great: now I want to start a thread on game design, Special FX powers and scaling.  Luckily, I'm past my bed time and I've got two jobs tomorrow, so LONG day. Saved by my work ethic!

RQ6 is a skill-based system.  Most of the "crunch" comes from the five different magic types and the fact that combat uses an Action Point economy and has damage per physical location instead of a pool of Hit Points.  I like RQ6 because with a location-based armor and hit point system, I can pick up some player's figure, or look at a drawing or picture of their character, and just assign armor by what they're wearing - "that's your armor".  I think the BRP system may very well fall down with 50' tall robots and Galactus, but I never had any interest in using BRP for that.  There is a free Quick-Start.

Silhouette is classless, ten attributes rated +3 to -3, skill roll is a number of 6-siders based on skill rating, take the highest, add your trait modifier and situational modifiers.  It matters by how much you succeed for many things.  Having Heavy Gear, Tribe 8 and Jovian Chronicles, gives you Mecha, Robots, and Magic, things that aren't easy to bring together.

Savage Worlds is CINEMATIC with a capital Spielberg.  If second edition AD&D is clean fantasy, this is "Clean Pulp".  Characters have different mechanics because they're Big Damn Heroes as opposed to dramatically unimportant Extras, simple task resolution is rather uneffective, the stunt and Bennies mechanics mean everything you do has to be Fast, Furious, Fun! Always! in fact I think everyone has to yell while playing.  

Interlock should work well with humans, mecha, robot levels of power, as long as you're willing to have a PPC annihilate a party.

Quote from: TheNextDoctor;789483Sorry, it seems that I did miss your earlier suggestion and never ignore.  I'll looked up GenreDiversion and it sounds pretty good in the review that I read and the price isn't too bad.  I don't know if I will give it a chance.

The review made by someone in this site talks about it being good for lower power-level campaigns but is not suitable for epic sci-fi and I assume higher power level games and I will be like to be able to do this.

So I think it might not be what I am looking for

I think most of the systems mentioned here have problems at high power levels. I've even seen the complaint raised about Savage Worlds.

Though there's quite some fun-sounding settings out for it, my own experience with SW has been rather underwhelming. It felt gamey, a bit bland, and certainly no more fast, furious, or fun than any other comparably rules-medium system out there. Card-based initiative felt tagged-on, redundant. Really nothing to write home about.

In defence of GenreDiversion I'll mention there *is* a supers game out for it, Bold & Brave, which was also reviewed on this site.

Quote from: 3rik;789541I think most of the systems mentioned here have problems at high power levels. I've even seen the complaint raised about Savage Worlds.

Though there's quite some fun-sounding settings out for it, my own experience with SW has been rather underwhelming. It felt gamey, a bit bland, and certainly no more fast, furious, or fun than any other comparably rules-medium system out there. Card-based initiative felt tagged-on, redundant. Really nothing to write home about.

In defence of GenreDiversion I'll mention there *is* a supers game out for it, Bold & Brave, which was also reviewed on this site.

Yeah, it seems like you're the second person to post that Savage Worlds didn't quite cut it.

From what I've read on the review of GenreDiversion.  It does seem to have the whole attributes, skills, and advantage/disadvantage thing a lot of the rpgs seem to have.  Not quite sure but pretty much the dice roll+ability (attribute)+skill beating the target number.  

As I said a lot of rpgs seem to have such a mechanism.  In your opinion, seems like you really know and like the system, what makes GenreDiversion better than the other systems that have been mentioned that you have experience with?

thanks

Quote from: CRKrueger;789530RQ6 is a skill-based system.  Most of the "crunch" comes from the five different magic types and the fact that combat uses an Action Point economy and has damage per physical location instead of a pool of Hit Points.  I like RQ6 because with a location-based armor and hit point system, I can pick up some player's figure, or look at a drawing or picture of their character, and just assign armor by what they're wearing - "that's your armor".  I think the BRP system may very well fall down with 50' tall robots and Galactus, but I never had any interest in using BRP for that.  There is a free Quick-Start.

Silhouette is classless, ten attributes rated +3 to -3, skill roll is a number of 6-siders based on skill rating, take the highest, add your trait modifier and situational modifiers.  It matters by how much you succeed for many things.  Having Heavy Gear, Tribe 8 and Jovian Chronicles, gives you Mecha, Robots, and Magic, things that aren't easy to bring together.

Savage Worlds is CINEMATIC with a capital Spielberg.  If second edition AD&D is clean fantasy, this is "Clean Pulp".  Characters have different mechanics because they're Big Damn Heroes as opposed to dramatically unimportant Extras, simple task resolution is rather uneffective, the stunt and Bennies mechanics mean everything you do has to be Fast, Furious, Fun! Always! in fact I think everyone has to yell while playing.  

Interlock should work well with humans, mecha, robot levels of power, as long as you're willing to have a PPC annihilate a party.

Sounds like Silhouette might be worth a look.
So does RQ6 but I'm a bit hesitant because it a play of basic system and while I don't know too much about basic besides that it's an early 80s system is that it's a percentile skill system.  Which is something I'll have to overcome.

Silhouette and Savage Worlds being newer systems seems to fit better with what I think I'll enjoy more.

Interlock is the system used in Cyberpunk 2020?

And what's PPC?

Quote from: jibbajibba;789489You can use an old World of Darkness engine to play pretty much any system. Stat + Skill = dice pool + Powers is a very flexible model but using it for your needs might be a homebrew too far.

I am definitely familiar with World of Darkness.  Where you have a basic mechanic and seems flexible.

Not necessarily opposed to homebrew as necessary but I'm of the feeling (and I'm most familiar with the World of Darkness than any other system) that it will get quite cumbersome.  And I'm just not speaking about dice pools.

Quote from: Spike;789527Great: now I want to start a thread on game design, Special FX powers and scaling.  Luckily, I'm past my bed time and I've got two jobs tomorrow, so LONG day. Saved by my work ethic!

Please do!!!

I'll love to read the thread and learn more.
And I'll probably chime in with my 2 cents even though I kinda lack the knowledge.

Quote from: TheNextDoctor;789577From what I've read on the review of GenreDiversion.  It does seem to have the whole attributes, skills, and advantage/disadvantage thing a lot of the rpgs seem to have.  Not quite sure but pretty much the dice roll+ability (attribute)+skill beating the target number.  

As I said a lot of rpgs seem to have such a mechanism.  In your opinion, seems like you really know and like the system, what makes GenreDiversion better than the other systems that have been mentioned that you have experience with?

thanks

GenreDiversion is indeed a straight traditional stat+skill vs. target number-type system and, in that regard, similar to Unisystem, except for its 2d6 probability curve. It's the kind of system I enjoy. I have no actual experience using GenreDiversion 3E, but I enjoy GenreDiversion i for being light-weight and extremely easy to tinker with. With 3E the game is now roll-over instead of roll-under and has been made into a more versatile rules set better suited for multi-session play. I figured if you enjoy Unisystem you may very well enjoy this as well. Hence my recommendation. Brett Bernstein of Precis Intermedia is a member of the forum.

Thank you to everyone that posted with fine suggestions.

I've browsed through many game systems the last couple of days due to all the suggestions.

Fate and Risus without having attributes is a too much for me to mentally handle.

Reading up on the Apocalypse engine, it seems that each setting has different attributes and that is not quite what I am looking for.

Basic and maybe RQ6 seem to use the percentile system and that is something I'll like to avoid.

CORPS character sheet scared me with what looked like hit location boxes.

I haven't looked at Traveller or the D6 system but I recall them being early 80s system and that's a bit more technical than I'm looking for.

Which leaves...

Unisystem, Savage Worlds, GenreDiversion, Silhouette and Interlock as my remaining choices from the suggestions given.

That kinda narrows down what I have to read and study and for that thank you very much.

Thanks again for your time and expertise