Sometimes, I get an urge.  A perverse desire that I surpress until I can't take anymore.  Sometimes, I really just want to run my friends through a dungeon with a fighter, a spellcaster, and a cleric, and let them beat up monsters.

But I'm picky about my dungeon crawling!  Let me see if I can think of some elements that, to me, make a dungeon crawl awesome.  Feel free to call me an idiot, but do please add your own thoughts on what makes for a good dungeon crawl.

1) Resources - I don't want bookkeeping out the ass, but I think you should have a limited amount of rope, torches, and healing potions.  Coming prepared is, I think, half the fun.

2) A well made dungeon - I mean duh.  But seriously, the 10 foot hallway leading to a perfectly square room full of red dragons and orcs is just not very good.  I want something keen.

3) Fast combat resolution, but with good tactical options - Seriously, the game is going to be nothing but exploration and combat.  I want the combat to run very fast though, because rolling dice all day is boring.  I want it to feel dangeous and exciting, not mechanical.  Still, it'll be even duller without some strategy.  I want options, tactics, description, and speed!


So what do you want out of a dungeon romp?  (Bonus points for naming good systems to run it it.)

Treasure! and lots of it please.

Multiple levels are a favourite of mine too. I dunno why, but whenever we reach the stairs down to the next level, it gives me a great sense of achievement. It's almost levelling up without the levelling up, if you know what i mean.

It's important that there are a variety of challenges -- some can be dealt with through combat, while others need to be handled in other ways.

I think B/X D&D, B/E/C/M D&D, RC D&D and AD&D are all good choices for a dungeoncrawl.

The traditonal Gygaxian dungeon can be summarised as,

"There are two doors before you. You don't know which is which, but... Through one door, INSTANT FLAMING DEATH. Through the other door, ONE MILLION GP. Pick a door, either door!"

A true crawly dungeon needs a long-winded and entirely irrelevant back-story presented in inpenetrable Gygaxian prose so you can waste the first half hour of the first session reading it out.

Ned

QuoteThe traditonal Gygaxian dungeon can be summarised as,

"There are two doors before you. You don't know which is which, but... Through one door, INSTANT FLAMING DEATH. Through the other door, ONE MILLION GP. Pick a door, either door!"

This is urban myth. And a dangerous one. Go, play Against the Giants, Drow series or KotB. You´ll find that you are totally wrong.

Old School Dungeons are constructed challenges, that are built especially to use the Method of Role Playing and the weighing of plausabilities as a resolution mechanic. Therefore, traps and encounters are specially described and constructed to further this approach.

Frex, a door doesn´t only have a pick lock DC. It is described where the hinges are, and what exactly triggers a trap. So you don´t say: I roll for traps, but you describe what your character is actually doing, like:

"I  hold a candle next to the doorway, to see if there´s air movement through the slits."

A classic dungeon can be recognized by the "pole-test":

If a ten foot pole would be very useful in it, then chances are high it´s designed according to classic principles.

Quote from: JimBobOzThe traditonal Gygaxian dungeon can be summarised as,

"There are two doors before you. You don't know which is which, but... Through one door, INSTANT FLAMING DEATH. Through the other door, ONE MILLION GP. Pick a door, either door!"

Nonsense. That's the negative stereotype of Gygaxian dungeons, just like "roleplaying is inherently dysfunctional" is a negative stereotype of traditional games. Neither Gygaxes own, nor TSR modules are like that.

Now, I recommend anyone interested in dungeon design to check out the following threads - there was a lot of very good discussion in them on creating a good map, the philosophy of designing an underworld, common mistakes, etc.:
Megadungeon mapping
Megadungon filling
Key elements to good dungeon design 101
They are a bit long, but certainly worth the time.

O.o

It'll have to wait until I get home, but let me see if I can dig out my old Tomb of Horrors and put the lie to that "described and constructed" and "weighing of plausibilities" affair. I'd swear I recall an object - like a door frame or small statue or something - that is instantly lethal to the touch.

Quote from: CodexArcanumSo what do you want out of a dungeon romp?  (Bonus points for naming good systems to run it it.)

I can't imagine running that kind of game with something else than D&D, really.

As for what I look for? The dungeon just needs an interesting story, a genesis. Once you've got that, you'll know how to make everything else make sense (such as whether it should have "perfectly square room full of red dragons", to borrow your example).

So what's the dungeon? How did it become a dungeon and what was it before it was a dungeon, if anything? What is the surrounding of the dungeon like, what kind of creatures lives (lived) there? These are the questions that facilitate the rest of the process for me.

On the more general aspects of what makes dungeons fun for the players, IME (not in any order): A good mastermind(s), cool combat opportunities, possibilities for acrobatic stunts, 3d situations (as opposed to just a string of corridors and even surface combat), great puzzles and secrets, evocative visuals as well as other senses, solid traps, solid monsters, great story, potential for ressource management and above all, non-linear design.

Avoid situations where there is only one way out. Leave room for players to overcome obstacles by using creativity. Place a few key points that have memorable environments for memorable scenes.

Good luck!

I just finished playing in a dungeon crawl and it kicked ass royally. We figured out some interesting world back story by figuring clues in the dungeon. It has ramifications that will affect the whole campaign outside because we now know the dungeon was a very ancient shelter for humanity. And it looks like whatever happened 7,000 years ago is about to happen again in my DM's world. The adventures were extremely exciting and thrilling. Three PC died and those who survived have done a mighty achievement.  It was one of the best dungeon crawls I have ever played.

Revolving doors/walls.

Ceilings waiting to crush foolish adventures.

Strange runes on doorways

Green slime.

Gelantious cubes.

Goblins.

And spikes...lots of spikes.

Regards,
David R

QuoteTomb of Horrors

You know about what that dungeon is all about?

Quote from: Christmas ApeO.o

It'll have to wait until I get home, but let me see if I can dig out my old Tomb of Horrors and put the lie to that "described and constructed" and "weighing of plausibilities" affair. I'd swear I recall an object - like a door frame or small statue or something - that is instantly lethal to the touch.

Tomb of Horrors is also intentionally constructed to be the ultimate test of puzzle-solving and adventurer paranoia. It is really for very experienced dungeon delvers who are also adepts at thinking outside the "I apply this rule" box. See this thread for a good example.

*peruses thread* And they call the CP2020 weapons list "fetishistic". I've never before managed to read an entire session of play in which NOTHING HAPPENED that wasn't in a horror story thread. So is the perceived problem with RPGs that around the 90s they started appealing to the whole family of mental illnesses, not just the obsessive-compulsives, then? Sorry guys, you rock out with your bad-ass hinge-examining selves, but that's about the most boring thing I've ever seen.

But anyway, while I could try to offer something for the thread itself, I like the dungeon crawl more as survival horror than monster-slaying romp or Adventures in Physics, Engineering, And Looking Very Closely At Everything, so I'm not sure what I use would help you.

Except for traps that cripple. Those are the most fun.

For pure dungeon crawl, I don't think you can get better than the concept of Entertainment Dungeon, which I first saw in the Fighting Fantasy Gamebook "Deathtrap Dungeon" later reprised in "Trial of Champions". The Running Man film has a similar concept.

Basically you have the dungeon designed and run as a business, which gives the GM an incredible amount of leeway to do anything he damn well pleases with barely a nod to common sense, logic or reality. I like to have things such as areas with a paying audience (seated well out of the characters reach behind magic force sheilds) and scrying spheres broadcasting the characters adventures.
I even thought of having a popularity measurement, so if the characters found themselves facing certain death, the audience could give a thumbs-up or down to decide wether they were spared or not. Kinda like Big Brother except for slightly higher stakes

You know, I can just never draw a dungeon map that satisfies me.  Should rooms be strung along hallways like beads on a string, or should they be clumped together and connected by corridors?  Should the layout have a circular flow?  Linear?  Trident?