With the trumpet blast announcing 5e, it seems like everyone is interested in writing his own special version of D&D.  I'm currently piecing together bits and pieces my own, and I've got the basics down.  However, something I've been struggling with is how weapon damage works.

The first level is simple: weapon damage + Strength (for melee) and weapon damage + Dexterity (for ranged).  

The trouble comes when trying to make this scale.  Hit points overall are going to be slightly higher than 2e but much lower than 3e/4e.  New characters start slightly more robust (about 20 HP each) and top out around 100 HP (assuming average rolls).  The goal is to use HP as the primary measure of defense from leveling, so AC does not scale (thus characters become slightly easier to hit as they level up; this is deliberate).

My frustration comes with finding a simple, intuitive way to boost damage over time w
to prevent high-level combat grind.  So far I'm thinking:

1. Multiple attacks.  Characters gain bonus attacks as they level up.  This one is sensible enough, but it leads to a sudden jump in power between levels, effectively doubling a character's damage output.

2. The [W] system of 4e.  In theory, I like this, but not so much in practice.  Characters with weapons doing 1d12 have a large advantage over the characters eolling 1d4 in the 4e system.  (Compare 3d12 + Strength to 3d4 + Strength).  There are ways to balance this, but they require more mechanical complexity than I am willing to provide (encounter/daily powers are something I'd like to avoid).

3. Bonus damage per level.  This is the most straight forward, but I'm hesitant to use it because it can lead to static damage variables.  Doing 1d6 + 20 damage is kind of lame because there's so little variation.

At this point, I'm stuck and could use some suggestions/advice.

My attempt at something similar:
http://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?t=23122

I should probably change the OP to reflect the changes based on the thread.

Anyway, I strongly strongly advise you don't put limits on your hp formulae until after you get your damage formula. I found it much easier to balance hp after damage than I would have the other way around.

Personally, I'm a fan of the level bonus. Martial characters can and should learn ways to hit more targets (which don't have to open the option of hitting the same guy many times, depending on how things get expressed).

It might also help to clarify your design goals (how many average hits at which levels and whatnot).

Something I also considered was a Wounds/Vitality system so that attacks, while not generally deadly, could be extremely dangerous while allowing longer, drawn-out fights.  Even if you're only doing 10 damage per round against someone with 100 HP, a single crit can put him down.  On the other hand, I fear that such a system may result in a feel akin to poking each other with sticks until a crit comes up.

Still puzzling over this one.  I am tempted to do damage by level and multiple attacks.  An individual attack might do 1d8 + 10 damage at high levels.  While not very much individually, a fighter might make four attacks.  My only fear is that might be a bit too much rolling of dice.

Quote from: Azure Lord;562515Something I also considered was a Wounds/Vitality system so that attacks, while not generally deadly, could be extremely dangerous while allowing longer, drawn-out fights.  Even if you're only doing 10 damage per round against someone with 100 HP, a single crit can put him down.

Mutants & Masterminds (2e) has a non-HP damage mechanic, which I think would actually work well for a fantasy game, and thought about trying it out.

Whenever you get hit you have to make a Toughness Save, versus a DC equal to a static number plus the attacker's damage bonus.  

Making the save results in no damage, failing the save has results depending on how badly you fail, but at core you accumulate a 'bruise/injury' for a simple failure which gives you a cumulative -1 penalty to Toughness Saves until you have  had a chance to recover (injuries heal at a maximum rate of 1 per hour and minimum of 1 per 10 hours without some superpower intervention).

Critical Hits increase the bonus damage added to the Toughness Save DC, and failing a save by 15 or more is a knock out (or dying, but lethal combat isn't default since it's a 4-color superhero game).

Armor adding a Toughness Save bonus would be a nice touch to a fantasy ruleset, and you could add damage dice back into the equation as well, although its' far from a work-free solution.  Also you are looking at an additional die roll with the save, without having any of the time saving of not rolling damage for every attack.  Part of me feels that you can't have 'that D&D feel' without damage dice though.  I'm thinking about going this route in my current project even with the extra rolls.  I think some of the combat flow will wash out without having to do meticulous HP tracking

I think it really has a swashbuckling feel to it, because you can go from dueling back and forth with little or no effect (while not feeling totally impotent from 'whiffing' constantly) to a sudden Unconscious + Dying result.  You can go from losing gradually but badly, to a sudden Stunned + Staggered (no actions for one round and 'flat footed', and then half actions until healed) reversal against your opponent with a critical.

4. Resist the urge to put in a hit points treadmill, and just have high level combat be qualitatively different from low level (more reliance on magic, less on sword swinging.)

Or you know, implement an "escalation die" (the discussion that got me on this board, viz. http://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?t=23095)

You could use a level-differential bonus to critical hit chances.  Depending on if you're using the 2e 'double damage' or the 3.x multiplier by weapon type system this could give a handy increase to the damage output from vastly skilled opponents without overbearing balanced combats.

You still wind up with the slow grind of hp between matched opponents, but that could be referred to as a 'well matched fight' in the dramatic sense.

Seems a hard question to answer because there are so many ways you could answer it.
 
Multiple attacks; 3Es approach of -x for iterative attacks prevented a direct doubling of damage for 2 attacks, but is a bit clumsy due to all the rolls being at different bonuses. Fixing this could could shift between 1 attack to 2 at a penalty (e.g. 3e monk flurry/improved flurry); or you can start everyone at 2 attacks so that the jump to 3 attacks is less significant; there are also attack systems where initiative determines number of attacks although its somewhat non-D&Dish.
 
You can also have a good attack roll increase damage in some way, although it adds extra math to combat. This does have the effect of making the actual roll/bonuses to roll more meaningful at higher levels, instead of just being a sure thing. This could include a 'Power Attack' type mechanic or increased damage for called shots where a player increases chances of a miss to get more damage, or a system where margin of success increases the damage or # damage dice rolled.
 
You don't necessarily have to have a single solution to the problem, either. Its entirely possible to have a system where each class has a different source of scaling damage -backstab for rogues, higher level spells for wizards, power attack for barbarians, multiple attacks for monks, etc.

Quote from: Roger the GS;5625684. Resist the urge to put in a hit points treadmill, and just have high level combat be qualitatively different from low level (more reliance on magic, less on sword swinging.)

Well, I fell that it wouldn't really "feel" like D&D without more HP.  How would you suggest doing combat that is "more reliant on magic"?

If your main concern is variance, here is a suggestion.

1d6+1 = Roll 1d8

Essentially each +1 bumps the die up one type.


For 1d6+12 you would roll 1d6 + 2d12



This would allow for a +1 damage per character level, retaining variance, without too much trouble.

Quote from: Bloody Stupid Johnson;562583Seems a hard question to answer because there are so many ways you could answer it.
 
Multiple attacks; 3Es approach of -x for iterative attacks prevented a direct doubling of damage for 2 attacks, but is a bit clumsy due to all the rolls being at different bonuses. Fixing this could could shift between 1 attack to 2 at a penalty (e.g. 3e monk flurry/improved flurry); or you can start everyone at 2 attacks so that the jump to 3 attacks is less significant; there are also attack systems where initiative determines number of attacks although its somewhat non-D&Dish.

I was considering starting everyone at two attacks for that very reason.

Upon reflection, one of the benefits of the [W] system is that it splits characters into distinct power categories.  If your sword attack goes from 1d8 + Strength to 2d8 + Strength, it creates a tangible jump in power (people see extra dice and freak out).

If you have a damage bonus based on level, you could allow swapping the damage bonus (on each attack, so you don't get variable bonuses) for additional attacks. Say.... -2 per attack. Both the hard cap (you can't trade more bonus than you have) and the diminishing returns (eventually it's a net loss) can set a cap on the max attacks per round.