I'm trying to get into DND but it's hard to find a forum that doesn't seem to have some link to woke stuff like the alphabet-soup friendly or whatever else.

I want to get into a fantasy world and get away from the nonsense of choosing your own pronouns or using they for a single person, making everything about sexuality and mixing other modern stuff into the setting, partly because my (most likely) autistic brain gets a headache when basic grammar is not adhered to because city people don't have serious enough problems and must create their own to feel a meaning in their lives.

I don't mind politics in DND, the world would feel less immersive without corruption, wars of succession et cetera, but I think I made my point understood that it's a matter of not forcing nonsense where it doesn't belong, especially if you want to play for escapism like I intent to.

I could argue other things, but I'm here to ask for something specific, not to start a debate on the state of DND.


Where can a new player find an online (I don't have time to transport nor the means) group to play with without the woke stuff inserted?

For additional info: I only really have time between Tuesdays and Thursdays (I work ten hour shifts Friday to Monday) UK time.

If anyone knows a DM who you could recommend me to (or vice versa) I just want to try playing a somewhat naive (so there shouldn't be a worry that I'll be a twat that needs to win everything) neutral good warrior using dual scimitars and Dexterity instead of Strength and see where that goes. I don't have a complete character sheet, mostly because, as far as I've seen, a lot of DMs like to add new rules, but I do have a strong idea of what kind of a character I want. I know a tiny bit of DND from the first Baldur's Gate and I've played pathfinder kingmaker and wrath of the righteous so I have some idea, at least better than nothing.

Sorry about making this so long, but I've had communication issues in the past and I've learned that it's safer for me to be annoying with too much information than to risk a misunderstanding with too little.

And for anyone who wants to complain about me complaining about woke stuff, you're part of the problem and the irony is too great for my dumb brain to put into words.

Look for OSR games. Some will still have the modern political bullshit shoehorned in, but the majority won't.

Welcome, by the way.

First up, where to find games in general. The easiest way is via the major VTT (virtual tabletop) programs. The two I've used are Roll20 and Foundry. Both are in-browser apps for players, though Foundry does require you host the data or pay for server space if you want to DM. Of the two, Roll20 is the easier one for finding games on. It has a built-in search engine which lets you filter for which games you want to play, timeslot, whether they "welcome new players", etc. (https://app.roll20.net/lfg/search/). Foundry lists their "looking for group" posts on Discord (https://discord.gg/foundryvtt). You want the "Gm-Free" channel to see what games are going. Roll20 is also the easier of the two programs to use (though neither is very hard as a player), and is less hardware-intensive. There's also some other VTTs out there, including Fantasy Grounds, Owlbear Rodeo, etc, but I don't have any experience with them.

As far as finding non-woke games goes, I find it's more about looking for red flags to avoid. Like Jeff said, the easiest way is to just avoid the 5th edition of D&D entirely. Simply by virtue of being the current edition of the most popular game, D&D has the most mainstream (read: "cringe") players. As a general rule, the less popular the game is, the more serious (and usually older) the players are and concomitantly the less nonsense you have to deal with. If you've played the Pathfinder CRPGs, you pretty much already know the rules to both Pathfinder 1st edition and D&D 3.5 edition, both of which still have some games going online. When people around here mention OSR games, they're talking about a whole suite of games based on even earlier editions of D&D, which are fairly popular in the space, and tend to be associated with an actively anti-woke group of players. For an outsider it's best to think of OSR games as simplified, stripped down versions of D&D. They're extremely easy to learn, but if you're coming from newer RPGs, you might find the character options underwhelming.

All that said, 5e is still the most played game and the easiest to find people playing. If you're looking for games in that realm, it's mostly just a matter of scoping out the game a little before you ask to join. The hyper-woke usually can't resist advertising it, so if you read the game listings with a critical eye, you can often pick up hints at what kind of game it is. Obviously keywords like "safe space", "LGBTQ+ friendly" etc. are to be avoided. You can also look at the players' avatars and on Roll20 at least, read the DM's profile to see what they're about. Don't be afraid to profile; if all the posters in the player applications are asking about pronouns and triggers, it's probably a game to avoid. But also don't write people off too quickly. I've played with multiple trans players in the last few years, and not a one of them has made an issue of it. Don't give up too easily. Even in 5e world, most people just want a good game to play, and will prioritize that over making political beefs.

Anyway, good luck and welcome to the hobby. Stick around the forum here and feel free to ask questions, too. Most of the posters are crusty, highly-opinionated old grognards, but also very happy to help people out wherever they can. Everybody likes to see the hobby grow.

For online play, go to Fantasy Grounds.  It had an established user base before woke was a thing.  You can play a game with normal people.

Quote from: ForgottenF on May 13, 2024, 10:07:40 PMAll that said, 5e is still the most played game and the easiest to find people playing. If you're looking for games in that realm, it's mostly just a matter of scoping out the game a little before you ask to join. The hyper-woke usually can't resist advertising it, so if you read the game listings with a critical eye, you can often pick up hints at what kind of game it is. Obviously keywords like "safe space", "LGBTQ+ friendly" etc. are to be avoided. You can also look at the players' avatars and on Roll20 at least, read the DM's profile to see what they're about. Don't be afraid to profile; if all the posters in the player applications are asking about pronouns and triggers, it's probably a game to avoid. But also don't write people off too quickly. I've played with multiple trans players in the last few years, and not a one of them has made an issue of it. Don't give up too easily. Even in 5e world, most people just want a good game to play, and will prioritize that over making political beefs.

I've already started doing so, hence this post, I don't want to happen on a situation where I'll get into a game because there's been no prior flags, then I'll have to leave because woke is inserted anyway.

I tried Roll20 but there's been more woke listings than not recently.

Unfortunately, you just have to suss out the clues that are usually present in any conversations or posting about games looking for players and vice versa.  The types of people who inject real world current day (or at least their highly biased one sided willfully blind view of them) tend to do it in their day to day activities and online postings.  It's the basis of the virtue signal phenomenon in society as well as similar to when poisonous insects and animals display bright unnatural (for the environment) colors in nature.

I can only recently (since the pandemic started) speak to looking for a game online but things I look out for digitally as red flags are pronouns in the bio, declarations of immutable phsyical characteristics whether genetic or acquired as advertisements, flags signifying support the "current thing" whether geopolitical or calendar based, specific statements about performative friendliness to certain groups (which usually goes hand in hand with toxity to others), overt declarations of politics (I've seen people actually advertise pro-socialist and anti-fascist statements in their LFG posts), lengthy "safety tool" and/or diversity checklists that are required reading/filling out prior to joining, and "no asshole" rules which frequently (but admittedly not always) means they're also an asshole who will accuse you of it if you disagree with their overt injections into the game.  I've seen all of the above over the past couple of years and avoided those LFG posts for the same reason.

If you post online that you're looking for the opposite then you're just likely to attract those same types like flies to a grill on a hot summer day.  As evidenced by threads on other forums like enworld and rpg.net, they will purposefully post crap in your announcement just to torpedo the chances of success with unnecessary drama in a campaign that they never had any intention of joining.  You'll unfortunately have to weed them out reading the tea leaves in conversations pre-game looking for hints of the same red flags I posted above. 

It's sad that you're pretty much forced to do this just to have some apolitical escapist fictional entertainment nowadays. 

I'd offer a spot in my online game, but your location and times available are "very bad" (I'm in the US and we play on Friday nights).

I think the easiest way to find a normal game is to look at the system first, then the description. If you see a Castles and Crusades game, 99% chance it won't be filled with morons. Probably the same with AD&D and maybe even B/X. Once you start getting into other systems, then pay careful attention to how they shill the game. Anyone wanting 47 page back stories for 1st level characters = problematic.

Since you are in the UK, have you tried Dragon Warriors? I played in two DW games online before, and both were the polar opposite of "woke". One was run by an Irish due who cussed a lot and seemed like he'd bomb a government office at the drop of a hat, so it was pretty interesting.

Shame, I just stopped running a 1e AD&D game in London a few months ago because some of the group moved away - we were explicitly a no politics, especially no identity politics, group. If I can get a game up and running again, I'll let you know.   

If you're willing to play "Adventurer, Conqueror, King", you can check the Autarch discord.

I have had great luck finding games to join at my local game store. They have a bulletin board and it is easy to see what games to avoid. I might be lucky though.