https://pandaily.com/hasbro-seeks-to-sell-ip-dnd-and-has-had-preliminary-contact-with-tencent/
Seems like a case of killing your one performing kid to keep the other kids alive, but it's not entirely implausible.
My video on this subject is uploading as we speak. I think there was a problem in translation going on...
Quote from: Habitual Gamer on January 31, 2024, 08:15:21 AM
https://pandaily.com/hasbro-seeks-to-sell-ip-dnd-and-has-had-preliminary-contact-with-tencent/
Seems like a case of killing your one performing kid to keep the other kids alive, but it's not entirely implausible.
Seeing what happened to the World of Darkness after the IP was sold to Paradox (ie: flood of terrible games both rule & lore wise kept up while good game lines were effectively killed to avoid competition), let's say that I'm not optimistic....
My guess is that they are selling rights to Tencent to create and publish in China.
Much more research is warranted before a firm opinion is given.
I'll believe it when I see it.
Well...I think there is one thing you will not see from a Chinese owner...and that is the woke. So...probably be a mess but the woke will be gone.
Quote from: BadApple on January 31, 2024, 08:40:24 AM
My guess is that they are selling rights to Tencent to create and publish in China.
Much more research is warranted before a firm opinion is given.
China requires any foreign licenesee to have a Chinese company hold majority stake in any venture such as this. Hence, it would make sense that Hasbro would sell 51% of the rights for the D&D IP just for the Chinese market to appease the Chinese regulators.
C'mon it's kind of obvious (I say without having read anything on this) that Tencent wants the videogame license. To buy the entire IP?? That's a Hasbro call.
Granted Hasbro has lost 50% of its stock value in the last year... so maybe? Doubt it though. Hasbro (and most corporations) don't sell IP's. Of course Tencent could probably buy all of Hasbro if they really wanted.
BG3 was a huge success. Maybe it was a spit and shine job to attract a big player like Tencent to either buy or license the IP.
Tencent invested in and then outright bought Funcom, makers of Conan Exiles. Tencent is invested in Larian. So, Tencent securing a long-term license or even the purchase of the D&D IP makes sense given these investments. They might have Funcom make a D&D MMPOG and have Larian pump out BG4, 5, etc.
Outright purchase of the IP would be safest for Tencent, but a strong license can be just as good.
In any case, I doubt much of it relates to books and IRL table games.
Money talks. Hasbro is pretty weak right now - and getting weaker. Their toylines are in a bad way.
Tencent *has* the money. I still think it'll be licensing thing (if at all). But weirder shit has happened. Like I said, if they really wanted to buy Hasbro... they probably could. Hasbro has a lot of IP's they could mine (if they had smart people). But I don't see Tencent getting into non-electronic gaming sectors for that exact reason.
Think about it - GI Joe, Transformers, Power Rangers, Magic the Gathering, D&D are pretty big IP's. I'd even say most of these *could* make for powerhouse PC/Console gaming franchises with the right hand behind them.
Edit: And let's not forget Hasbro is the license holder for some pretty big IP's but those are in non-electronic gaming sectors.
But the devil is in the details.
Like others have opined, Tencent probably wants the video game license. And they have billions of dollars to make it happen. But if Hasbro is struggling, and they can buy the whole IP outright, why not?
So I think it's just the license but if the price is right, they'll take it all.
It'd be very interesting if they decided to sell to Tencent, but like the others said it sounds like they're selling the rights to use D&D rather than the entire IP. Could be wrong, but that sounds more likely.
That said, it'd probably ruin D&D. I don't know much about Tencent other than they're located in China. You'd see a lot of stuff going away in order to meet with Chinese censorship and the tone of the game would probably shift too. Who knows what that would mean for places like DTRPG, I mean you might not be able to buy reprints anymore.
Quote from: 1stLevelWizard on January 31, 2024, 11:37:53 AM
It'd be very interesting if they decided to sell to Tencent, but like the others said it sounds like they're selling the rights to use D&D rather than the entire IP. Could be wrong, but that sounds more likely.
That said, it'd probably ruin D&D. I don't know much about Tencent other than they're located in China. You'd see a lot of stuff going away in order to meet with Chinese censorship and the tone of the game would probably shift too. Who knows what that would mean for places like DTRPG, I mean you might not be able to buy reprints anymore.
I disagree. Content won't be crossing borders, only money will be. I don't see how Chinese censorship could apply to a Tencent-owned studio in Norway or Belgium making video games under license. Case study: Conan Exiles is about as un-woke as you can get. Two character models: ripped male, hot female. Cock and boob size sliders. Slavery as a core game mechanic. Races loosely based on real-world stereotype. Basically all of Howard without apology. All the things that WotC has been scrubbing from D&D for years now.
Quote from: tenbones on January 31, 2024, 10:11:26 AM
C'mon it's kind of obvious (I say without having read anything on this) that Tencent wants the videogame license. To buy the entire IP?? That's a Hasbro call.
Granted Hasbro has lost 50% of its stock value in the last year... so maybe? Doubt it though. Hasbro (and most corporations) don't sell IP's. Of course Tencent could probably buy all of Hasbro if they really wanted.
If true, it'll be like Atari then. A brand owned by a shell company that just keeps rehashing old 2600 games. No love or care for the original IP and what made it great, owned by uncreative business people. A line item on a spreadsheet.
As Pundit said, this might just be a translation error. It is too early to jump on the news.
Frankly, Hasbro have mis-managed their licenses so terribly for almost 20 years now, that a foreign company is at worst equally bad, at best a source of hope.
A foreign company with an eye only on the bottom line is how you get classic versions of IPs, because they sell. A soulless Chinese IP milker is, ironically, how we get GI Joe without gurlpower, and Transformers without gay robots.
Tencent already owns all of Robert E Howard's work. So there is a bit of synergy here.
Quote from: hedgehobbit on January 31, 2024, 02:04:43 PM
Tencent already owns all of Robert E Howard's work. So there is a bit of synergy here.
Correction, it owns the rights to some trademarks, REH's work is in the public domain.
Conan Exiles was the primary reason I feel if D&D or any part of D&D that goes to 10 cent might be a lot of things...but woke will not be one of them.
Tencent seems fairly hands-off as long as their acquisitions make money for them; the companies they've bought out haven't notably deviated in course that I've seen. They are however beholden to the Chinese government, so if the commies came in and told them to do something, they would do it. They really have no choice in the matter. However, my understanding of Chinese culture is that the whole US "wokeness" is considered an object of ridicule, so while they may not put a stop to it if it's already part of the IP, I can't imagine they would add to it either. Of course, while they might put the brakes on DEI, there's still no assurance of actually putting out a decent product. Given that Wizards fired most of the actual game developers, Tencent would need to get some good talent on board to replace them.
As I mentioned in Pundit's own topic, the clear thing being missed here is Tencent has a 30% stake in *LARIAN*.
The guys who made Baldur's gate 3.
Professor Dungeon Master went into more detail in his video... But it was apparently Larian who tipped off Tencent to the proposal... as Larian most likely wanted it for themselves, but couldn't afford it. So they tipped off their Sugar Daddy Tencent.
Most likely, if this goes through Tencent will buy all of it, and then hand the reigns off to Larian to be in charge of the IP.
Quote from: Orphan81 on January 31, 2024, 09:41:55 PM
As I mentioned in Pundit's own topic, the clear thing being missed here is Tencent has a 30% stake in *LARIAN*.
The guys who made Baldur's gate 3.
I mentioned that relationship on page 1. And yeah I agree, Tencent wants the license long term and they will likely just buy the rest of Larian if they can secure the license.
Quote from: rytrasmi on January 31, 2024, 10:16:53 PM
Quote from: Orphan81 on January 31, 2024, 09:41:55 PM
As I mentioned in Pundit's own topic, the clear thing being missed here is Tencent has a 30% stake in *LARIAN*.
The guys who made Baldur's gate 3.
I mentioned that relationship on page 1. And yeah I agree, Tencent wants the license long term and they will likely just buy the rest of Larian if they can secure the license.
I don't think Larian would completely sell themselves to Tencent. They're not a publicly traded company so Tencent can't just buy them... and the owner Swen Vincke likes running the company too much to fully sell it.
But yeah I definitely think Tencent would be willing to sub-liscence to Larian and tell them to keep doing what they're doing.
Quote from: Orphan81 on January 31, 2024, 09:41:55 PM
As I mentioned in Pundit's own topic, the clear thing being missed here is Tencent has a 30% stake in *LARIAN*.
The guys who made Baldur's gate 3.
Professor Dungeon Master went into more detail in his video... But it was apparently Larian who tipped off Tencent to the proposal... as Larian most likely wanted it for themselves, but couldn't afford it. So they tipped off their Sugar Daddy Tencent.
Most likely, if this goes through Tencent will buy all of it, and then hand the reigns off to Larian to be in charge of the IP.
We can only speculate. Without knowing the terms that went along with that 30% stake, Tencent may not automatically have an option to acquire the entire company.
Hasbro would be crazy to actually sell off the IP itself when it could simply do a license for X amount of time for Y markets.
Another consideration also is that this is a strategic leak for some other purpose, such as to raise interest by other potential licensees.
I agree with Pundit that this is just about the video game rights. If Tencent actually did acquire the entire IP, it could very well grant a license for the tabletop version of D&D to another company. Btw, Tencent makes some good animated shows. I'm especially enjoying the rather oddly named "Law of Devil", which is basically a mash-up of LotR, GoT, and D&D. It's much more entertaining Western fantasy than what we've been getting from Hollywood lately.
Quote from: Habitual Gamer on January 31, 2024, 08:15:21 AM
https://pandaily.com/hasbro-seeks-to-sell-ip-dnd-and-has-had-preliminary-contact-with-tencent/
Seems like a case of killing your one performing kid to keep the other kids alive, but it's not entirely implausible.
The pandaily article includes this sentence: "Companies in Europe and America attach great importance to the value of intellectual property (IP), while Chinese companies have limited opportunities to acquire top-tier IP from overseas." Interestingly, the series Law of Devil that I mentioned in my previous post contains a wizard called Gandalf as well as an "Emperor Aragorn". Perhaps Tencent is in negotiations to acquire Middle-earth Enterprises from the Embracer Group, which is also in financial difficulties. The show also contains ents who are called "treants" in the English sub, but that might just mean that the translator has a passing familiarity with Dungeons & Dragons.
Quote from: Rhymer88 on February 01, 2024, 02:30:34 AMBtw, Tencent makes some good animated shows. I'm especially enjoying the rather oddly named "Law of Devil", which is basically a mash-up of LotR, GoT, and D&D. It's much more entertaining Western fantasy than what we've been getting from Hollywood lately.
It look like 'Video Game Cutscene: The Series.'
"Wizards of the Coast dispels rumours that Tencent wants to gobble up D&D like a tarrasque: 'To be clear: We are not looking to sell our D&D IP'"
https://www.pcgamer.com/wizards-of-the-coast-dispels-rumours-that-tencent-wants-to-gobble-up-dandd-like-a-tarrasque-to-be-clear-we-are-not-looking-to-sell-our-dandd-ip/ (https://www.pcgamer.com/wizards-of-the-coast-dispels-rumours-that-tencent-wants-to-gobble-up-dandd-like-a-tarrasque-to-be-clear-we-are-not-looking-to-sell-our-dandd-ip/)
I heard that the asking price for D&D was one billion dollars. Is it worth that much? Hazards-of-the-bro has been trying to properly monetize D&D for a while now and they are loosing money because no one wants their poorly-written books, their cheap chachki key fobs and t-shirts, and their malformed miniatures of people in wheelchairs.
Maybe the people at Tencent are smart enough to turn a profit on D&D, but how can you truly "own" a game that anyone can copy? You will have to invest a lot to make your "official" version of D&D better than everyone else's version of D&D. Can they do it?
Quote from: Svenhelgrim on February 01, 2024, 12:46:35 PMMaybe the people at Tencent are smart enough to turn a profit on D&D, but how can you truly "own" a game that anyone can copy? You will have to invest a lot to make your "official" version of D&D better than everyone else's version of D&D. Can they do it?
The value in D&D is in the worlds and background lore, not in the rules. But the lore is fairly vanilla and not worth much. The only part of Baldurs Gate they provided value was the name.
Quote from: Rhymer88 on February 01, 2024, 12:31:00 PM
"Wizards of the Coast dispels rumours that Tencent wants to gobble up D&D like a tarrasque: 'To be clear: We are not looking to sell our D&D IP'"
https://www.pcgamer.com/wizards-of-the-coast-dispels-rumours-that-tencent-wants-to-gobble-up-dandd-like-a-tarrasque-to-be-clear-we-are-not-looking-to-sell-our-dandd-ip/ (https://www.pcgamer.com/wizards-of-the-coast-dispels-rumours-that-tencent-wants-to-gobble-up-dandd-like-a-tarrasque-to-be-clear-we-are-not-looking-to-sell-our-dandd-ip/)
It was nice to have hope D&D could be saved as an IP for awhile.
Oh well.
Quote from: Grognard GM on January 31, 2024, 01:16:34 PM
Frankly, Hasbro have mis-managed their licenses so terribly for almost 20 years now, that a foreign company is at worst equally bad, at best a source of hope.
Ah yes, famous last words, "It couldn't possibly get worse."
Oh yes. Yes it so very much could. Your lack of imagination concerning how it could get worse is a tad surprising. If this were an in-game scenario I bet you could dream up 100 different ways it could get worse.
Quote from: Rhymer88 on February 01, 2024, 12:31:00 PM
To be clear: We are not looking to sell our D&D IP'"
Personally, I have zero faith in Hasbro's "clarity" at this point.
Quote from: Mistwell on February 01, 2024, 02:47:15 PM
Ah yes, famous last words, "It couldn't possibly get worse."
Oh yes. Yes it so very much could. Your lack of imagination concerning how it could get worse is a tad surprising. If this were an in-game scenario I bet you could dream up 100 different ways it could get worse.
So first, yes, it could get worse. Eventually it probably will; all it will take is one serious-enough economic downturn and an entertainment company could easily decide to sell assets to foreigners, and we've already seen the existing holders of almost every famous entertainment brand use them as weapons against anyone who likes the product, use them as vehicles for propaganda.
However, I actually have no doubts that that Tencent would, in fact, be a vastly superior steward of D&D than Hasbro is; I'd greatly prefer any company focused around making money in the short term, but Tencent has shown itself surprisingly resistant to cultural nonsense overall.
I want to point out, after the anti-white racial summer, companies like Hasbro have gone absolutely bonkers with their garbage, WotC in particular, signalling by making serious and bad changes to their products. They errataed out swaths of good DMG text that refers to culture, are changing "race" to "species" in like three months (which will become a shibboleth; eventually people on reddit's DND, RPG, and DNDNEXT subreddits will insist on species, and if you have any doubt, go ahead and check on the "now with black and brow racial power stripes" exclusion flags they all fly on their banners). They banned magic cards for their names and at that time actively began pretending that their numbering scheme which counts all cards according to algorithm goes from 1487 to 1489, like some superstitious elevator buttons. Every D&D change has actively fucked up the game, from refusing to hire creators based on their race, to soft-banning any mention of slavery (because slavery is exclusively to be used in the real world to attack whites, and any use that puts it into any historical perspective works against this goal), to screwing up the racial stats so that everything is "+2 to whatever you need, +1 to your second best thing, and never any minus at all" (the lack of racial penalties was present at the beginning of 5e and was a bad idea at that time; the other crap was added later).
The game is much worse as a result of this. If some profit-oriented country from any cultural sphere on earth not beholden to politicized content and "this product is a vehicle for me to lay my shitty eggs in" type reasoning were to buy literally ANY brand that I cared about even slightly, I'd be
thrilled, it's not limited to Dungeons and Dragons. Could it be worse? Sure, but it's more likely to be better.
Quote from: Mistwell on February 01, 2024, 02:47:15 PM
Quote from: Grognard GM on January 31, 2024, 01:16:34 PM
Frankly, Hasbro have mis-managed their licenses so terribly for almost 20 years now, that a foreign company is at worst equally bad, at best a source of hope.
Ah yes, famous last words, "It couldn't possibly get worse."
Oh yes. Yes it so very much could. Your lack of imagination concerning how it could get worse is a tad surprising. If this were an in-game scenario I bet you could dream up 100 different ways it could get worse.
I can think of one situation that could very easily make it worse:
Disney&D, anyone?
I imagine Hasbro can't sell D&D in parts because of the somewhat connected multiverse. Like selling Forgotten Realms to Larian. The characters that appear on other settings like Planescape and Ravenloft would be an issue to settle before selling. Especially, Forgotten Realms would be problematic since it is the default setting since AD&D2, despite other settings being officially the default setting. But without the name "Dungeons & Dragons", these settings may not be valuable at all for people wanting to sell video games.
Quote from: Mistwell on February 01, 2024, 02:47:15 PM
Quote from: Grognard GM on January 31, 2024, 01:16:34 PM
Frankly, Hasbro have mis-managed their licenses so terribly for almost 20 years now, that a foreign company is at worst equally bad, at best a source of hope.
Ah yes, famous last words, "It couldn't possibly get worse."
Oh yes. Yes it so very much could. Your lack of imagination concerning how it could get worse is a tad surprising. If this were an in-game scenario I bet you could dream up 100 different ways it could get worse.
Explain to me how the IP's could get worse than Trans-Transformers, gay Transformers, all-gurl-boss GI Joe, Quick Kick beating Snake-Eyes like a dog for DARING to do martial arts without magic blood, Visionaries vs Transformers where Leoric is African and the Darkling Lords are lead by a danger hair version of Virulina?
Where are the good video games based on their IPs?
Hasbro IPs are moldy corpses, dripping with white fluid from every orifice, and you come at me with "things could get worse." GTFO.
Quote from: rytrasmi on January 31, 2024, 11:54:23 AM
Quote from: 1stLevelWizard on January 31, 2024, 11:37:53 AM
It'd be very interesting if they decided to sell to Tencent, but like the others said it sounds like they're selling the rights to use D&D rather than the entire IP. Could be wrong, but that sounds more likely.
That said, it'd probably ruin D&D. I don't know much about Tencent other than they're located in China. You'd see a lot of stuff going away in order to meet with Chinese censorship and the tone of the game would probably shift too. Who knows what that would mean for places like DTRPG, I mean you might not be able to buy reprints anymore.
I disagree. Content won't be crossing borders, only money will be. I don't see how Chinese censorship could apply to a Tencent-owned studio in Norway or Belgium making video games under license. Case study: Conan Exiles is about as un-woke as you can get. Two character models: ripped male, hot female. Cock and boob size sliders. Slavery as a core game mechanic. Races loosely based on real-world stereotype. Basically all of Howard without apology. All the things that WotC has been scrubbing from D&D for years now.
That's some new information I didn't know, but it's good to know. I was running off the assumption that they're close to the Chinese government, working off of what I know about other corporations like MiHoYo. Not saying I'd want to see D&D get sold to a Chinese company for the reason that I'd be nervous what the government would do, but it's interesting to hear they own Conan Exiles.
Quote from: 1stLevelWizard on February 01, 2024, 07:12:03 PM
Quote from: rytrasmi on January 31, 2024, 11:54:23 AM
I don't see how Chinese censorship could apply to a Tencent-owned studio in Norway or Belgium making video games under license. Case study: Conan Exiles is about as un-woke as you can get. Two character models: ripped male, hot female. Cock and boob size sliders. Slavery as a core game mechanic. Races loosely based on real-world stereotype. Basically all of Howard without apology. All the things that WotC has been scrubbing from D&D for years now.
That's some new information I didn't know, but it's good to know. I was running off the assumption that they're close to the Chinese government, working off of what I know about other corporations like MiHoYo. Not saying I'd want to see D&D get sold to a Chinese company for the reason that I'd be nervous what the government would do, but it's interesting to hear they own Conan Exiles.
I haven't played any of these - but from what I see, Conan Exiles was released in 2018 by Funcom. Funcom wasn't acquired by Tencent until 2020. So Tencent had no say in the development of Conan Exiles.
Here's an article I see on it. I'm not endorsing the article - just putting it up for comment.
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2021/jul/15/china-video-game-censorship-tencent-netease-blizzard
Quote from: Grognard GM on February 01, 2024, 06:38:28 PM
Quote from: Mistwell on February 01, 2024, 02:47:15 PM
Quote from: Grognard GM on January 31, 2024, 01:16:34 PM
Frankly, Hasbro have mis-managed their licenses so terribly for almost 20 years now, that a foreign company is at worst equally bad, at best a source of hope.
Ah yes, famous last words, "It couldn't possibly get worse."
Oh yes. Yes it so very much could. Your lack of imagination concerning how it could get worse is a tad surprising. If this were an in-game scenario I bet you could dream up 100 different ways it could get worse.
Explain to me how the IP's could get worse than Trans-Transformers, gay Transformers, all-gurl-boss GI Joe, Quick Kick beating Snake-Eyes like a dog for DARING to do martial arts without magic blood, Visionaries vs Transformers where Leoric is African and the Darkling Lords are lead by a danger hair version of Virulina?
Where are the good video games based on their IPs?
Hasbro IPs are moldy corpses, dripping with white fluid from every orifice, and you come at me with "things could get worse." GTFO.
Pro-Minor-Attracted-Person propoganda being put into their IPs.
Quote from: Ratman_tf on February 01, 2024, 08:21:18 PMPro-Minor-Attracted-Person propoganda being put into their IPs.
I mean, there's probably already some Hasbro license skirting it already. Also, the CCP, for all its faults, is more likely to execute people for that shit than endorse it.
As I said earlier, the Chinese will push whatever they think will make the most money, which will probably be classic versions of the IPs. Every time Star Trek and Star Wars makes memorabilia of their new movies and shows, they don't sell. But their 60 year old characters sell like hotcakes.
I'll take classic Optimus and Snake Eyes in cash grab cookie cutter products over skinsuit insults.
Quote from: 1stLevelWizard on February 01, 2024, 07:12:03 PM
That's some new information I didn't know, but it's good to know. I was running off the assumption that they're close to the Chinese government, working off of what I know about other corporations like MiHoYo. Not saying I'd want to see D&D get sold to a Chinese company for the reason that I'd be nervous what the government would do, but it's interesting to hear they own Conan Exiles.
The Chinese Government hates Videogames. Tencent is kind of adversarial to them. I think the only reason the CCP hasn't shut them down is because they bring in so much money.
Tencent is very hands off with all of the game companies they have a stake in.
Edit: Without the Chinese government connection, Tencent would probably have as much goodwill among gamers as Valve enjoys. They don't fuck with the companies they have stakes in or outright own. They let them do what they're good at and keep gamers happy. It's why I was honestly happy at the prospect of Tencent acquiring D&D.
If I'm wrong then I'd be glad, I mean I still don't like the idea of D&D officially being controlled indirectly by Communist China, but if what you said and rytrasmi said matches up, a potential deal with Tencent will either:
A. Put the last nail in the coffin for D&D as we know it
B. Potentially heal the game
C. Remain the same, just under new management
I really hate to say it, but if they do sell it I really hope Tencent goes with B and actually fixes the damn mess WotC made. It'd be nice, but also funny to watch them remove all the West Coast crap that's been put in. Unlikely, but here's to hoping. Otherwise, I still don't feel good about China being so close to owning D&D.
Would they buy it if the game had been called Labyrinths and Lamassu?
Quote from: oggsmash on January 31, 2024, 03:25:42 PM
Conan Exiles was the primary reason I feel if D&D or any part of D&D that goes to 10 cent might be a lot of things...but woke will not be one of them.
Never underestimate the pressure these nuts can apply even from afar. Somehow from beyond the grave WotC will find a way to fuck things up.
And the other problem is that anything Tencent makes will likely b based off the upcomming 6e trash.
Quote from: 1stLevelWizard on February 01, 2024, 07:12:03 PM
I was running off the assumption that they're close to the Chinese government
EVERY Chinese company is owned, either directly or indirectly, by the CCP/Chinese government. I found this out the hard way when looking into manufacturing data for a project I was working on doing my PhD (some sort of custom motherboard). It's literally impossible to do business in China without dealing with the government in some capacity. The fact nearly every private business is owned wholly by a city/province/whatever is a crafty strategy they use to mitigate legal issues. Getting a Chinese company to make something is actually very, very easy if you have enough money to grease the wheels. If they fuck you over, though (like stealing IP which they most certainly will), you would need to get the State department involved (or whatever it is in your country) because of how the layers of control are organized.
IANAL so take this with a grain of salt, but over the course of a year a bunch of us trying to setup manufacturing ran into the same issues.
Anyway, at this point the D&D brand is meaningless to me beyond the generic name for RPGs. Everyone knows what D&D is, and if you say you're "playing D&D" when you're actually playing Runequest, that's good enough for a normie.
If you live anywhere in the South:
"Give me a coke."
"Okay, what kind?"
"Oh, do you have Sprite?"
Same different now as far as I'm concerned. Fuck WotC, and RIP D&D.
Quote from: Grognard GM on February 01, 2024, 06:38:28 PM
Explain to me how the IP's could get worse than Trans-Transformers, gay Transformers, all-gurl-boss GI Joe, Quick Kick beating Snake-Eyes like a dog for DARING to do martial arts without magic blood, Visionaries vs Transformers where Leoric is African and the Darkling Lords are lead by a danger hair version of Virulina?
Aw, TANJ! I bought mybrother the TFs vs Visionaries comicfor Christmas, not knowing! He hasn't read it yet. I'll leave the surprise for him.
Should have known better since it's a Hasbro IP.
I was a HUGE TF collector with one-of-a-kind items that would amaze you. But I stopped my nearly 40-year hobby over a year ago.
Quote from: jhkim on February 01, 2024, 07:56:56 PM
Quote from: 1stLevelWizard on February 01, 2024, 07:12:03 PM
Quote from: rytrasmi on January 31, 2024, 11:54:23 AM
I don't see how Chinese censorship could apply to a Tencent-owned studio in Norway or Belgium making video games under license. Case study: Conan Exiles is about as un-woke as you can get. Two character models: ripped male, hot female. Cock and boob size sliders. Slavery as a core game mechanic. Races loosely based on real-world stereotype. Basically all of Howard without apology. All the things that WotC has been scrubbing from D&D for years now.
That's some new information I didn't know, but it's good to know. I was running off the assumption that they're close to the Chinese government, working off of what I know about other corporations like MiHoYo. Not saying I'd want to see D&D get sold to a Chinese company for the reason that I'd be nervous what the government would do, but it's interesting to hear they own Conan Exiles.
I haven't played any of these - but from what I see, Conan Exiles was released in 2018 by Funcom. Funcom wasn't acquired by Tencent until 2020. So Tencent had no say in the development of Conan Exiles.
Here's an article I see on it. I'm not endorsing the article - just putting it up for comment.
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2021/jul/15/china-video-game-censorship-tencent-netease-blizzard
It's not like they shipped a box of floppies in 2018 and moved on to other things. Like many games these days it is under continuous development with DLC etc..Do you even Steam bro?
Quote from: Mistwell on February 01, 2024, 02:47:15 PM
Quote from: Grognard GM on January 31, 2024, 01:16:34 PM
Frankly, Hasbro have mis-managed their licenses so terribly for almost 20 years now, that a foreign company is at worst equally bad, at best a source of hope.
Ah yes, famous last words, "It couldn't possibly get worse."
Oh yes. Yes it so very much could. Your lack of imagination concerning how it could get worse is a tad surprising. If this were an in-game scenario I bet you could dream up 100 different ways it could get worse.
They are printing books with gay prom in there. So for ME it can not get worse.
Quote from: oggsmash on February 03, 2024, 03:31:24 PM
Quote from: Mistwell on February 01, 2024, 02:47:15 PM
Quote from: Grognard GM on January 31, 2024, 01:16:34 PM
Frankly, Hasbro have mis-managed their licenses so terribly for almost 20 years now, that a foreign company is at worst equally bad, at best a source of hope.
Ah yes, famous last words, "It couldn't possibly get worse."
Oh yes. Yes it so very much could. Your lack of imagination concerning how it could get worse is a tad surprising. If this were an in-game scenario I bet you could dream up 100 different ways it could get worse.
They are printing books with gay prom in there. So for ME it can not get worse.
How about when they start pushing to normalize
pedophilia"minor attraction" with a heroic mission to rescue a child from the family who won't let their eight year son become a girl and be the plaything of Klaus/Soros expy (who is the heroic patron hiring the PCs).
I feel the urge to go to Reconciliation just for typing that, but if you think they won't get there, you need to remember that there is no bottom to their mental illness and depravity.
At this point, the best thing for official D&D is for it to die while it still has an iota of goodwill left and before it's gangrene spreads enough to make normal people want to burn down the entire hobby.
Quote from: oggsmash on February 03, 2024, 03:31:24 PM
Quote from: Mistwell on February 01, 2024, 02:47:15 PM
Quote from: Grognard GM on January 31, 2024, 01:16:34 PM
Frankly, Hasbro have mis-managed their licenses so terribly for almost 20 years now, that a foreign company is at worst equally bad, at best a source of hope.
Ah yes, famous last words, "It couldn't possibly get worse."
Oh yes. Yes it so very much could. Your lack of imagination concerning how it could get worse is a tad surprising. If this were an in-game scenario I bet you could dream up 100 different ways it could get worse.
They are printing books with gay prom in there. So for ME it can not get worse.
Then you lack imagination.
Quote from: Chris24601 on February 03, 2024, 04:02:26 PM
Quote from: oggsmash on February 03, 2024, 03:31:24 PM
Quote from: Mistwell on February 01, 2024, 02:47:15 PM
Quote from: Grognard GM on January 31, 2024, 01:16:34 PM
Frankly, Hasbro have mis-managed their licenses so terribly for almost 20 years now, that a foreign company is at worst equally bad, at best a source of hope.
Ah yes, famous last words, "It couldn't possibly get worse."
Oh yes. Yes it so very much could. Your lack of imagination concerning how it could get worse is a tad surprising. If this were an in-game scenario I bet you could dream up 100 different ways it could get worse.
They are printing books with gay prom in there. So for ME it can not get worse.
How about when they start pushing to normalize pedophilia"minor attraction" with a heroic mission to rescue a child from the family who won't let their eight year son become a girl and be the plaything of Klaus/Soros expy (who is the heroic patron hiring the PCs).
I feel the urge to go to Reconciliation just for typing that, but if you think they won't get there, you need to remember that there is no bottom to their mental illness and depravity.
At this point, the best thing for official D&D is for it to die while it still has an iota of goodwill left and before it's gangrene spreads enough to make normal people want to burn down the entire hobby.
Thing is I think that is EXACTLY what gay prom is really about anyway...so like I said it can not get any worse for me.
Quote from: Mistwell on February 03, 2024, 07:20:13 PM
Quote from: oggsmash on February 03, 2024, 03:31:24 PM
Quote from: Mistwell on February 01, 2024, 02:47:15 PM
Quote from: Grognard GM on January 31, 2024, 01:16:34 PM
Frankly, Hasbro have mis-managed their licenses so terribly for almost 20 years now, that a foreign company is at worst equally bad, at best a source of hope.
Ah yes, famous last words, "It couldn't possibly get worse."
Oh yes. Yes it so very much could. Your lack of imagination concerning how it could get worse is a tad surprising. If this were an in-game scenario I bet you could dream up 100 different ways it could get worse.
They are printing books with gay prom in there. So for ME it can not get worse.
Then you lack imagination.
I do not imagine it getting worse than trying to cook up grooming scenarios for underage kids. I suppose if I dig down really deep I could imagine more horrific...but there is a point I am simply not interested in finding the grossest turd in the sewer.
Quote from: Brad on February 02, 2024, 06:51:57 AM
EVERY Chinese company is owned, either directly or indirectly, by the CCP/Chinese government. I found this out the hard way when looking into manufacturing data for a project I was working on doing my PhD (some sort of custom motherboard). It's literally impossible to do business in China without dealing with the government in some capacity. The fact nearly every private business is owned wholly by a city/province/whatever is a crafty strategy they use to mitigate legal issues. Getting a Chinese company to make something is actually very, very easy if you have enough money to grease the wheels. If they fuck you over, though (like stealing IP which they most certainly will), you would need to get the State department involved (or whatever it is in your country) because of how the layers of control are organized.
IANAL so take this with a grain of salt, but over the course of a year a bunch of us trying to setup manufacturing ran into the same issues.
Some years ago was part of a group that kept track of a company who was having some stuff manufactured in China. By the end if it it was a mess on multiple levels and the company lost reputation because of it. People were finding the TEST models in boxes for example. And they cut so many corners the second run pieces were often badly fit in a toy that relied on its fittings.
Also FFG way back stated they always had to over-order by 50% parts when manufacturing in China because of the high defective ratio.
And a few years ago there was a span where docks and storage in China were extorting extra fees by holding up shipping.
Supposedly people still make a profit doing business with China... somehow.
Quote from: oggsmash on February 03, 2024, 10:20:38 PM
Quote from: Mistwell on February 03, 2024, 07:20:13 PM
Quote from: oggsmash on February 03, 2024, 03:31:24 PM
Quote from: Mistwell on February 01, 2024, 02:47:15 PM
Quote from: Grognard GM on January 31, 2024, 01:16:34 PM
Frankly, Hasbro have mis-managed their licenses so terribly for almost 20 years now, that a foreign company is at worst equally bad, at best a source of hope.
Ah yes, famous last words, "It couldn't possibly get worse."
Oh yes. Yes it so very much could. Your lack of imagination concerning how it could get worse is a tad surprising. If this were an in-game scenario I bet you could dream up 100 different ways it could get worse.
They are printing books with gay prom in there. So for ME it can not get worse.
Then you lack imagination.
I do not imagine it getting worse than trying to cook up grooming scenarios for underage kids. I suppose if I dig down really deep I could imagine more horrific...but there is a point I am simply not interested in finding the grossest turd in the sewer.
It could do it with F.A.T.A.L. rules.
Quote from: Omega on February 03, 2024, 10:41:02 PM
Quote from: Brad on February 02, 2024, 06:51:57 AM
EVERY Chinese company is owned, either directly or indirectly, by the CCP/Chinese government. I found this out the hard way when looking into manufacturing data for a project I was working on doing my PhD (some sort of custom motherboard). It's literally impossible to do business in China without dealing with the government in some capacity. The fact nearly every private business is owned wholly by a city/province/whatever is a crafty strategy they use to mitigate legal issues. Getting a Chinese company to make something is actually very, very easy if you have enough money to grease the wheels. If they fuck you over, though (like stealing IP which they most certainly will), you would need to get the State department involved (or whatever it is in your country) because of how the layers of control are organized.
IANAL so take this with a grain of salt, but over the course of a year a bunch of us trying to setup manufacturing ran into the same issues.
Some years ago was part of a group that kept track of a company who was having some stuff manufactured in China. By the end if it it was a mess on multiple levels and the company lost reputation because of it. People were finding the TEST models in boxes for example. And they cut so many corners the second run pieces were often badly fit in a toy that relied on its fittings.
Also FFG way back stated they always had to over-order by 50% parts when manufacturing in China because of the high defective ratio.
And a few years ago there was a span where docks and storage in China were extorting extra fees by holding up shipping.
Supposedly people still make a profit doing business with China... somehow.
I import from China some stuff (we make a lot in the US but import the cheapest stuff). We find about 8% flaws. Yes, one year we saw docks held up. Fortunately we had a great broker and didn't pay anything extra to get our stuff out but just used their reputation to get through, but I would bet others did.
Even with the enormous, truly outrageous tariffs, it still makes sense to do it. We couldn't compete on the low end stuff otherwise. And I was very fortunate to land on a factory that's relatively ethical. But that was hard to do, and there is no financial reward for doing it other than personal reward of not feeling completely gross. Though in some sense there is a financial reward because I've seen workers leave for the New Years at another factory that treated their employees like crap and most of their employees simply never returned to work.
Quote from: Brad on February 02, 2024, 06:51:57 AM
Quote from: 1stLevelWizard on February 01, 2024, 07:12:03 PM
I was running off the assumption that they're close to the Chinese government
Anyway, at this point the D&D brand is meaningless to me beyond the generic name for RPGs. Everyone knows what D&D is, and if you say you're "playing D&D" when you're actually playing Runequest, that's good enough for a normie.
If you live anywhere in the South:
"Give me a coke."
"Okay, what kind?"
"Oh, do you have Sprite?"
Same different now as far as I'm concerned. Fuck WotC, and RIP D&D.
Pretty much. D&D will live on regardless of the status of WotC, and I agree that it's better if people stop worrying about the financial security of the company. They don't have the best interests of the hobby at heart. My only real concern with D&D dying off is the availability of the classic books in POD format. I'm a grognard when it comes to digital books, and I don't like having laptops around the table.
Quote from: Omega on February 03, 2024, 10:41:02 PM
Also FFG way back stated they always had to over-order by 50% parts when manufacturing in China because of the high defective ratio.
I know someone who is a senior engineer at a large company with factories in China, and he travels there frequently. He told me there's only two Chinese words he needs for his business meetings. I promptly forgot them, but they translate to "not good enough." I learned in biz school that in the Chinese culture companies always compete on price first, then cut costs to try to still make a profit. Thus the atrocious quality in many items.