Quote from: Grognard GM on January 31, 2024, 01:16:34 PM
Frankly, Hasbro have mis-managed their licenses so terribly for almost 20 years now, that a foreign company is at worst equally bad, at best a source of hope.

Ah yes, famous last words, "It couldn't possibly get worse."

Oh yes. Yes it so very much could. Your lack of imagination concerning how it could get worse is a tad surprising. If this were an in-game scenario I bet you could dream up 100 different ways it could get worse.

Quote from: Rhymer88 on February 01, 2024, 12:31:00 PM
To be clear: We are not looking to sell our D&D IP'"

Personally, I have zero faith in Hasbro's "clarity" at this point.

Quote from: Mistwell on February 01, 2024, 02:47:15 PM
Ah yes, famous last words, "It couldn't possibly get worse."

Oh yes. Yes it so very much could. Your lack of imagination concerning how it could get worse is a tad surprising. If this were an in-game scenario I bet you could dream up 100 different ways it could get worse.

So first, yes, it could get worse.  Eventually it probably will; all it will take is one serious-enough economic downturn and an entertainment company could easily decide to sell assets to foreigners, and we've already seen the existing holders of almost every famous entertainment brand use them as weapons against anyone who likes the product, use them as vehicles for propaganda.

However, I actually have no doubts that that Tencent would, in fact, be a vastly superior steward of D&D than Hasbro is; I'd greatly prefer any company focused around making money in the short term, but Tencent has shown itself surprisingly resistant to cultural nonsense overall.

I want to point out, after the anti-white racial summer, companies like Hasbro have gone absolutely bonkers with their garbage, WotC in particular, signalling by making serious and bad changes to their products. They errataed out swaths of good DMG text that refers to culture, are changing "race" to "species" in like three months (which will become a shibboleth; eventually people on reddit's DND, RPG, and DNDNEXT subreddits will insist on species, and if you have any doubt, go ahead and check on the "now with black and brow racial power stripes" exclusion flags they all fly on their banners).  They banned magic cards for their names and at that time actively began pretending that their numbering scheme which counts all cards according to algorithm goes from 1487 to 1489, like some superstitious elevator buttons.  Every D&D change has actively fucked up the game, from refusing to hire creators based on their race, to soft-banning any mention of slavery (because slavery is exclusively to be used in the real world to attack whites, and any use that puts it into any historical perspective works against this goal), to screwing up the racial stats so that everything is "+2 to whatever you need, +1 to your second best thing, and never any minus at all" (the lack of racial penalties was present at the beginning of 5e and was a bad idea at that time; the other crap was added later).

The game is much worse as a result of this.  If some profit-oriented country from any cultural sphere on earth not beholden to politicized content and "this product is a vehicle for me to lay my shitty eggs in" type reasoning were to buy literally ANY brand that I cared about even slightly, I'd be thrilled, it's not limited to Dungeons and Dragons.  Could it be worse?  Sure, but it's more likely to be better.

Quote from: Mistwell on February 01, 2024, 02:47:15 PM

Quote from: Grognard GM on January 31, 2024, 01:16:34 PM
Frankly, Hasbro have mis-managed their licenses so terribly for almost 20 years now, that a foreign company is at worst equally bad, at best a source of hope.

Ah yes, famous last words, "It couldn't possibly get worse."

Oh yes. Yes it so very much could. Your lack of imagination concerning how it could get worse is a tad surprising. If this were an in-game scenario I bet you could dream up 100 different ways it could get worse.

  I can think of one situation that could very easily make it worse:

  Disney&D, anyone?

I imagine Hasbro can't sell D&D in parts because of the somewhat connected multiverse. Like selling Forgotten Realms to Larian. The characters that appear on other settings like Planescape and Ravenloft would be an issue to settle before selling. Especially, Forgotten Realms would be problematic since it is the default setting since AD&D2, despite other settings being officially the default setting. But without the name "Dungeons & Dragons", these settings may not be valuable at all for people wanting to sell video games.

Quote from: Mistwell on February 01, 2024, 02:47:15 PM

Quote from: Grognard GM on January 31, 2024, 01:16:34 PM
Frankly, Hasbro have mis-managed their licenses so terribly for almost 20 years now, that a foreign company is at worst equally bad, at best a source of hope.

Ah yes, famous last words, "It couldn't possibly get worse."

Oh yes. Yes it so very much could. Your lack of imagination concerning how it could get worse is a tad surprising. If this were an in-game scenario I bet you could dream up 100 different ways it could get worse.

Explain to me how the IP's could get worse than Trans-Transformers, gay Transformers, all-gurl-boss GI Joe, Quick Kick beating Snake-Eyes like a dog for DARING to do martial arts without magic blood, Visionaries vs Transformers where Leoric is African and the Darkling Lords are lead by a danger hair version of Virulina?

Where are the good video games based on their IPs?

Hasbro IPs are moldy corpses, dripping with white fluid from every orifice, and you come at me with "things could get worse." GTFO.

Quote from: rytrasmi on January 31, 2024, 11:54:23 AM

Quote from: 1stLevelWizard on January 31, 2024, 11:37:53 AM
It'd be very interesting if they decided to sell to Tencent, but like the others said it sounds like they're selling the rights to use D&D rather than the entire IP. Could be wrong, but that sounds more likely.

That said, it'd probably ruin D&D. I don't know much about Tencent other than they're located in China. You'd see a lot of stuff going away in order to meet with Chinese censorship and the tone of the game would probably shift too. Who knows what that would mean for places like DTRPG, I mean you might not be able to buy reprints anymore.

I disagree. Content won't be crossing borders, only money will be. I don't see how Chinese censorship could apply to a Tencent-owned studio in Norway or Belgium making video games under license. Case study: Conan Exiles is about as un-woke as you can get. Two character models: ripped male, hot female. Cock and boob size sliders. Slavery as a core game mechanic. Races loosely based on real-world stereotype. Basically all of Howard without apology. All the things that WotC has been scrubbing from D&D for years now.

That's some new information I didn't know, but it's good to know. I was running off the assumption that they're close to the Chinese government, working off of what I know about other corporations like MiHoYo. Not saying I'd want to see D&D get sold to a Chinese company for the reason that I'd be nervous what the government would do, but it's interesting to hear they own Conan Exiles.

Quote from: 1stLevelWizard on February 01, 2024, 07:12:03 PM

Quote from: rytrasmi on January 31, 2024, 11:54:23 AM
I don't see how Chinese censorship could apply to a Tencent-owned studio in Norway or Belgium making video games under license. Case study: Conan Exiles is about as un-woke as you can get. Two character models: ripped male, hot female. Cock and boob size sliders. Slavery as a core game mechanic. Races loosely based on real-world stereotype. Basically all of Howard without apology. All the things that WotC has been scrubbing from D&D for years now.

That's some new information I didn't know, but it's good to know. I was running off the assumption that they're close to the Chinese government, working off of what I know about other corporations like MiHoYo. Not saying I'd want to see D&D get sold to a Chinese company for the reason that I'd be nervous what the government would do, but it's interesting to hear they own Conan Exiles.

I haven't played any of these - but from what I see, Conan Exiles was released in 2018 by Funcom. Funcom wasn't acquired by Tencent until 2020. So Tencent had no say in the development of Conan Exiles.

Here's an article I see on it. I'm not endorsing the article - just putting it up for comment.

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2021/jul/15/china-video-game-censorship-tencent-netease-blizzard

Quote from: Grognard GM on February 01, 2024, 06:38:28 PM

Quote from: Mistwell on February 01, 2024, 02:47:15 PM

Quote from: Grognard GM on January 31, 2024, 01:16:34 PM
Frankly, Hasbro have mis-managed their licenses so terribly for almost 20 years now, that a foreign company is at worst equally bad, at best a source of hope.

Ah yes, famous last words, "It couldn't possibly get worse."

Oh yes. Yes it so very much could. Your lack of imagination concerning how it could get worse is a tad surprising. If this were an in-game scenario I bet you could dream up 100 different ways it could get worse.

Explain to me how the IP's could get worse than Trans-Transformers, gay Transformers, all-gurl-boss GI Joe, Quick Kick beating Snake-Eyes like a dog for DARING to do martial arts without magic blood, Visionaries vs Transformers where Leoric is African and the Darkling Lords are lead by a danger hair version of Virulina?

Where are the good video games based on their IPs?

Hasbro IPs are moldy corpses, dripping with white fluid from every orifice, and you come at me with "things could get worse." GTFO.

Pro-Minor-Attracted-Person propoganda being put into their IPs.

Quote from: Ratman_tf on February 01, 2024, 08:21:18 PMPro-Minor-Attracted-Person propoganda being put into their IPs.

I mean, there's probably already some Hasbro license skirting it already. Also, the CCP, for all its faults, is more likely to execute people for that shit than endorse it.

As I said earlier, the Chinese will push whatever they think will make the most money, which will probably be classic versions of the IPs. Every time Star Trek and Star Wars makes memorabilia of their new movies and shows, they don't sell. But their 60 year old characters sell like hotcakes.

I'll take classic Optimus and Snake Eyes in cash grab cookie cutter products over skinsuit insults.

Quote from: 1stLevelWizard on February 01, 2024, 07:12:03 PM

That's some new information I didn't know, but it's good to know. I was running off the assumption that they're close to the Chinese government, working off of what I know about other corporations like MiHoYo. Not saying I'd want to see D&D get sold to a Chinese company for the reason that I'd be nervous what the government would do, but it's interesting to hear they own Conan Exiles.

The Chinese Government hates Videogames. Tencent is kind of adversarial to them. I think the only reason the CCP hasn't shut them down is because they bring in so much money.

Tencent is very hands off with all of the game companies they have a stake in.

Edit: Without the Chinese government connection, Tencent would probably have as much goodwill among gamers as Valve enjoys. They don't fuck with the companies they have stakes in or outright own. They let them do what they're good at and keep gamers happy. It's why I was honestly happy at the prospect of Tencent acquiring D&D.

If I'm wrong then I'd be glad, I mean I still don't like the idea of D&D officially being controlled indirectly by Communist China, but if what you said and rytrasmi said matches up, a potential deal with Tencent will either:

A. Put the last nail in the coffin for D&D as we know it

B. Potentially heal the game

C. Remain the same, just under new management

I really hate to say it, but if they do sell it I really hope Tencent goes with B and actually fixes the damn mess WotC made. It'd be nice, but also funny to watch them remove all the West Coast crap that's been put in. Unlikely, but here's to hoping. Otherwise, I still don't feel good about China being so close to owning D&D.

Would they buy it if the game had been called Labyrinths and Lamassu?

Quote from: oggsmash on January 31, 2024, 03:25:42 PM
Conan Exiles was the primary reason I feel if D&D or any part of D&D that goes to 10 cent might be a lot of things...but woke will not be one of them.

Never underestimate the pressure these nuts can apply even from afar. Somehow from beyond the grave WotC will find a way to fuck things up.

And the other problem is that anything Tencent makes will likely b based off the upcomming 6e trash.

Quote from: 1stLevelWizard on February 01, 2024, 07:12:03 PM
I was running off the assumption that they're close to the Chinese government

EVERY Chinese company is owned, either directly or indirectly, by the CCP/Chinese government. I found this out the hard way when looking into manufacturing data for a project I was working on doing my PhD (some sort of custom motherboard). It's literally impossible to do business in China without dealing with the government in some capacity. The fact nearly every private business is owned wholly by a city/province/whatever is a crafty strategy they use to mitigate legal issues. Getting a Chinese company to make something is actually very, very easy if you have enough money to grease the wheels. If they fuck you over, though (like stealing IP which they most certainly will), you would need to get the State department involved (or whatever it is in your country) because of how the layers of control are organized.

IANAL so take this with a grain of salt, but over the course of a year a bunch of us trying to setup manufacturing ran into the same issues.

Anyway, at this point the D&D brand is meaningless to me beyond the generic name for RPGs. Everyone knows what D&D is, and if you say you're "playing D&D" when you're actually playing Runequest, that's good enough for a normie.

If you live anywhere in the South:
"Give me a coke."
"Okay, what kind?"
"Oh, do you have Sprite?"

Same different now as far as I'm concerned. Fuck WotC, and RIP D&D.