Quote from: jhkim on April 12, 2023, 02:13:58 PM

Quote from: GhostNinja on April 12, 2023, 01:50:05 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on April 12, 2023, 12:43:11 PM
Nope, threw it at you to prove there's ZERO anti-semitism in Tolkien's works.

That he drew inspiration from different sources is a known fact and also WHO THE FUCK CARES?

Only leftards trying to find the proof the man was an anti-semite or that he committed the crime of admiring the Jewish people Cultural Appropriation.

For me the point would be if you are trying to find something to complain about, whether its a book, a movie a tv show or something else then you really are just wasting your time worrying about something that doesn't matter.

I totally agree with you.  Who the fuck cares?  If you don't like it then dont read/watch/play whatever it is you dont like.

Right. And I agree with that too. I love Tolkien, and one of the things that has bugged me is how a ton of RPGs have thoroughly screwed up the spirit of his stories. This has been part of what was behind my plan about a future Middle Earth game that I was planning. I had a thread on it a few weeks ago:

https://www.therpgsite.com/pen-paper-roleplaying-games-rpgs-discussion/savage-middle-earth/

For my campaign, I wanted to get away from a lot of the muddled revisions to Middle Earth that have come with later adaptations. Elves aren't just like humans with +1 Dex. They are immortal beings who are magical to their core, who walk on snow and run on a single rope like it was a sturdy bridge. Dwarves aren't beer-swilling rowdies like stereotypical Scottish miners. They are based on Jewish traditions and culture - with fine jewelcraft, scholarly writings, along with an organized martial tradition.

I care about what Tolkien thought when I make my adaptation, because I want it to reflect the intent and spirit rather than superficial similarity. I'm still planning about it, so I might start a new thread about it soon.

Do share your world building notes and any changes you do to the system (what system are you planing to use? MERPS?).

I'm really interested in seeing how you implement such things, IME tho we can't really grasp alien minds like those of Elves, Dwarves, etc. which is why you always end up with people playing humans in rubber suits with some stuff turned to 13 or absent:

Vulkans are just humans with funny ears and eyebrows that are utterly autistic.

Quote from: GhostNinja on April 12, 2023, 03:07:28 PM

Quote from: Grognard GM on April 12, 2023, 02:29:53 PM
He'd love the money and prestige it has, and absolutely loathe ever other aspect of it.

I wonder if TSR had done things right and had stuck around and still had D&D I wonder where it would be today.

There would be no OGL and no major 3rd party D&D products - no Kobold Press for example. Anybody making a clone or something "too close" to D&D would get sued. He was extremely jealous and protective of his IP. You wouldn't be able to play D&D unless you were playing *his* D&D. And because he loved the money, that would mean whatever D&D "official" version TSR was currently selling. Anything else you'd have to buy used on the secondary market, and he'd make that as hard to get as he could.

This would be a boon to alternate non-D&D systems. The late 80s and 90s were a hey day for GURPS, WoD, Hero, Iron Crown et al.

In spite of their recent attempt to take it back, WotC's decision to go "open source" (not just the OGL, but also the abandonment of litigation as a business strategy) 20 years ago was a huge boon to *D&D* - every edition, every 3rd party publisher.

Gygax and Arneson created a whole new hobby. But they weren't great stewards of that hobby. Gygax losing TSR and then TSR going bankrupt were probably a good thing for the hobby overall.

Quote from: Festus on April 12, 2023, 03:34:08 PM
There would be no OGL and no major 3rd party D&D products - no Kobold Press for example. Anybody making a clone or something "too close" to D&D would get sued. He was extremely jealous and protective of his IP. You wouldn't be able to play D&D unless you were playing *his* D&D. And because he loved the money, that would mean whatever D&D "official" version TSR was currently selling. Anything else you'd have to buy used on the secondary market, and he'd make that as hard to get as he could.

This would be a boon to alternate non-D&D systems. The late 80s and 90s were a hey day for GURPS, WoD, Hero, Iron Crown et al.

In spite of their recent attempt to take it back, WotC's decision to go "open source" (not just the OGL, but also the abandonment of litigation as a business strategy) 20 years ago was a huge boon to *D&D* - every edition, every 3rd party publisher.

Gygax and Arneson created a whole new hobby. But they weren't great stewards of that hobby. Gygax losing TSR and then TSR going bankrupt were probably a good thing for the hobby overall.

You are probably right about this.  Good insight.

Quote from: Festus on April 12, 2023, 03:34:08 PMGygax and Arneson created a whole new hobby. But they weren't great stewards of that hobby. Gygax losing TSR and then TSR going bankrupt were probably a good thing for the hobby overall.

There's a cycle with most things.

Creative people create something, and treat it with love and care, but it goes bankrupt/struggles because they aren't business people. Business people take over, and sooner or later tank and destroy the thing, because they have no love or care for it.

Quote from: Grognard GM on April 12, 2023, 06:41:51 PM
There's a cycle with most things.

Creative people create something, and treat it with love and care, but it goes bankrupt/struggles because they aren't business people. Business people take over, and sooner or later tank and destroy the thing, because they have no love or care for it.

Sadly that is what happened to TSR and why it is no longer around (the original).  I wont talk about the new TSR.

QuoteSome of Tolkien's borrowings or similarities to Hebrew prayer are cringeworthy.
Baruk khazad! Khazad ai-menu! - Axes of the Dwarves! The Dwarves are upon you!
Baruch atah Adonai, Eilohenu - We praise you, Eternal God

Similarity to Semitic language is done on purpose.
Considering how Tolkien was careful to remove any direct link to abrahamic religions from his books (as they are meant to be revelead in far future of his Arda, and he didn't want to make any dubious copy cat) I'd rather assume that simmilarity between this prayer and dwarven warcry is accidental, born from simmilarity of sound. I find it very dubious that he would directly borrow prayer.

Quote from: Wrath of God on April 18, 2023, 11:42:47 AM

QuoteSome of Tolkien's borrowings or similarities to Hebrew prayer are cringeworthy.
Baruk khazad! Khazad ai-menu! - Axes of the Dwarves! The Dwarves are upon you!
Baruch atah Adonai, Eilohenu - We praise you, Eternal God

Similarity to Semitic language is done on purpose.
Considering how Tolkien was careful to remove any direct link to abrahamic religions from his books (as they are meant to be revelead in far future of his Arda, and he didn't want to make any dubious copy cat) I'd rather assume that simmilarity between this prayer and dwarven warcry is accidental, born from simmilarity of sound. I find it very dubious that he would directly borrow prayer.

Wouldn't be the first time someone borrowed a bit from Hebrew. Frank Herbert's Dune features the 'kwisatz hadarach', the 'shortening of the way', which was a transliteration of a Hebrew term.

What was funny was that Dune's term referred to a person who could help humanity make the next jump in evolution -- a figurative 'shortening of the way'. But the original Hebrew refers to the strange ability some rabbis had to cross great distances in short or no time at all, a literal 'shortening of the way'.

When I learned this I immediately contacted a friend of mine who is an Orthodox Jew and complained he'd been holding out on us with tales of teleporting rabbis.