Quote from: J Arcane;461034And under what justification can you make that conclusion in the absence of actual evidence to support it?

The evidence is the lack of  Magic and current D&D products on Hasbro's website. Hasbro spent money to buy WotC, and presumably continues to have a financial interest in it. They also have a website where they market products. The products they market are toys and games, much like D&D and Magic cards. They even include D&D products, just not the current line, for a reason I certainly can't fathom, which is really what the point of my posts is. Perhaps, rather than just bitching about what I'm saying, someone could perhaps advance a theory that might act as counterpoint instead.

QuoteHasbro is a multi-billion dollar company with interests in almost every facet of the toy industry.

So what? Do companies get stupid if they have over a certain amount?

QuoteD&D is a niche hobby for a handful of nerds.

Once again, so what? Nerds spend money too. Is it really that expensive and onerous to type out a few lines of text and insert a few images?

QuoteIt is just as possible that their numbers are beneath notice enough as to be irrelevant or go unnoticed by whatever office peon is responsible for putting together that website.

That's exactly what I'm talking about. To me, that's stupid. If they made no mention of WotC at all, I might understand. If they just linked the WotC site I'd understand. What they do instead is market products not even being produced anymore, and products most likely not even of much interest to the "nerd" market that would be interested in the current D&D. Doesn't that strike you as being a little silly? They list WotC and D&D in a search, but then don't even offer the intro box set, and I could find no mention of Magic at all. Seriously, I freely admit I'm no MBA or anything, and could certainly be wrong about all this, but I have lived in a capitalist country all my life, been marketed to all my life by one group or another, and even own my own business (photography) on the side. If there's a good reason for this stuff I can't think of it.

QuoteWe also don't actually know if Wizards has any say in what goes on the website, or if they are even aware of it, or if they felt that supporting an entry in the larger corporate store was something they could back up with inventory.

Oh I don't doubt they have no say at all. IMO this has nothing to do with WotC. It's pretty stupid of Hasbro though, once again IMO

QuoteYou know absolutely nothing about the decision process that led to the situation described in the OP, but have soldiered on with a lot of baseless speculation and frothing ranting regardless.  

You people need to lay off the "frothing ranting" bullshit. Not every opinion you might disagree with is "frothing ranting", and saying it just to try to insult someone is childish. Otherwise, you are right, I do not have any firm facts to base my opinion about the reason why on, just what I can see and the fact that, while I'm many things, an idiot isn't one of them. However, this is a discussion forum. The OP, and indeed the vast majority of OPs on this and all other forums I've ever seen, was meant to generate discussion on things, this topic being one of them. I can certainly understand if the topic would hold no interest for you, but I would expect that you would simply not continue to read or comment on it, not post thread-crapping bullshit.

QuoteJD suggested perhaps replacing that baseless speculation with some actual fact-checking beyond what shows up in a Google search, which is a reasonable suggestion if what one is after is informed discussion, but we don't do that here.  An understandable mistake to make, but apparently a criminal one.

JD was being a smart-ass. I have no illusions about anyone at Hasbro answering any phone calls or emails on this subject, and it's really not that important to me. If Hasbro wants to have a shitty website, they are certainly within their rights. If you have any actual information that refutes my opinion, then by all means share it. That is the point of actual discussion after all. Instead what I've gotten so far is off-topic whining about my expressing my opinion when you and JD apparently think I shouldn't (as if it were up to either one of you). If and when anyone arrives with any kind of actual facts beyond what we can all observe with our own eyes, or even a reasonable hypothesis, then perhaps I will revise my opinion.

In the end, I really don't give a fuck, just hoped I'd get more than a couple trolls fucking crying about my posts out of the discussion, but if nobody else really cares, then I'm happy to let the thread die.

Quotenobody else really cares

And that is the truth of the matter.  Most of the posters here didn't think it a relevant data point.  Joethelawyer posted it not because he cares, but because it was a crude attempt to get a jab in at Wizards' business policy, it's what he does.  You clearly don't care because you're more interested in rambling uninformed in a message board thread than finding out more about the whys and whos of the situation.

No one cares, but everyone bitches about it.  Such is the internet.

Quote from: J Arcane;461043And that is the truth of the matter.  Most of the posters here didn't think it a relevant data point.  Joethelawyer posted it not because he cares, but because it was a crude attempt to get a jab in at Wizards' business policy, it's what he does.  You clearly don't care because you're more interested in rambling uninformed in a message board thread than finding out more about the whys and whos of the situation.

No one cares, but everyone bitches about it.  Such is the internet.

You act like you're so above "rambling uninformed in a message board thread", yet put forth opinions yourself about things you are no more educated about than I am here with this topic, so how about you get off your illusionary high horse. I have expressed an opinion I've formed based on the evidence I have available to me, just like you and everyone else on this and all other forums do. I neither know nor care why Joethelawyer does anything, but no matter what, coming into the thread to do nothing but crap on it and act all pretentious doesn't somehow make you better than anyone. Have you thought that perhaps I expressed my opinion hoping to actually have someone come on who does understand this stuff better and might be able to set the record straight on it? No, of course not, you just saw a good opportunity to act superior again, and it seems you can't pass those up.

You realize, don't you, that you are part of the Internet every time you log on and start posting on it? You're just as much a part of "the Internet" you seem to despise as everyone else is. You seem perfectly comfortable in another thread to "ramble" about how "canon lawyers" are all control freaks, despite the fact that there's no way you can know that for sure. Even if you're a mental health professional, you can't know what they're thinking, only what you observe. For what it's worth, I completely agree with you about that, but the fact remains. Neither one of us can possibly know for sure what's going on inside someone else's head. So, it's ok if you do it, but not me? Don't be a hypocrite.

All that said, I will concede that my bitching about Hasbro, while not entirely baseless, is still very far from informed, and is more just surprise and incredulity and should be taken with several grains of salt. I really don't know why they have made those choices, and I do not have business training. It is entirely possible, and probably quite likely, that I am completely wrong and there's a perfectly reasonable explanation for not marketing a subsidiary's current products despite them being quite similar to Hasbro's own.

Since such a big deal has been made out of it, I decided to go ahead and try to contact Hasbro anyway. What the hell, I'm curious, and I still think it's fucking stupid. So, I went to the "CONTACT US" page of Hasbro's site, opened the "EMAIL US" tab. After setting up my account and selecting the appropriate items from the drop-down menus, I typed out my question and clicked the submit button, which immediately sent to a page containing...

QuotePlease read the INSTANT ANSWERS below, which were automatically selected for you. If your question is not answered, Please click the "EMAIL US" button. Hi Chris, You'll want to check out the Wizards of the Coast Knowledge Base. If you can't find your answer there, you can submit an e-mail using their E-mail Us system, or call Wizards of the Cost Customer Service at 1-800-324-6496 during their normal business hours. They will be able to answer all your questions with expert advice in a timely manner!

... and there were no INSTANT ANSWERS below, just blank space. The typo is theirs as well. Since I thought I had already clicked the "EMAIL US" button, I've decided this is enough research.

Quote from: Sigmund;461047... and there were no INSTANT ANSWERS below, just blank space. The typo is theirs as well. Since I thought I had already clicked the "EMAIL US" button, I've decided this is enough research.

I feel like it's safe to conclude that Hasbro does not give a shit about their web presence.  Makes sense since I am sure they do most of their commerce elsewhere.

You can probably find a phone number for their corporate headquarters, or maybe by looking in web professional journals you might find who is responsible for the website?  Keep looking, investigation is hard sometimes! Don't give up with one failure! Again, I'm just making suggestions on the assumption that you really wanted an answer to your question.  I'm here to help.

Quote from: Sigmund;461047... and there were no INSTANT ANSWERS below, just blank space. The typo is theirs as well. Since I thought I had already clicked the "EMAIL US" button, I've decided this is enough research.

Welcome to corporate PR hell. Hope you like it here. If you do not, please contact 1-800-BULLCRAP and we will do our best to make you regret ever asking to voice your complaints to our department. Have a good day, keep on waiting for our response!

Well, I learned something today.  Thanks Ed!

Quote from: Esgaldil;461053Well, I learned something today.  Thanks Ed!

You're welcome then.

No problem, dude.

As for the rest of you - what you're all fussing about really isn't a "big Deal".

I still lean toward mmy simple answer of behind-the-scenes at HASBRO: They discovere some extra product or 're-discovered' it bin a nook or cranny of a warehouse. They then decided to put it up for sale on their website.
People that still want those miniatures and D&D 3.5 starter box canm now get them that way.
Sounds like a 'win' for everybody - I don't see a problem or even a hidden agenda.

Its a simple business thing.

 A company has discovered old inventory that they know there is STILL interest in.
 They put it up on their website hoping for a few sales and a delayed profit compared to when the products were originally offered.


- Ed C.

Quote from: misterguignol;461049I feel like it's safe to conclude that Hasbro does not give a shit about their web presence.  Makes sense since I am sure they do most of their commerce elsewhere.

I reach the same conclusion. I just find that short-sighted and think it's deliberately missing an opportunity, especially since it's a cheap and simple form of marketing, relatively speaking. The only reason I can think of to not take advantage of it is laziness, especially for a company that could afford to have a very nice and comprehensive site. When I worked for Jewelry Television, they sold less than a quarter of their yearly sales through the website, but still spent time and effort to build a very nice website. In this day and age it just seems to make more sense to me.

Quote from: Sigmund;461058I just find that short-sighted and think it's deliberately missing an opportunity, especially since it's a cheap and simple form of marketing, relatively speaking. The only reason I can think of to not take advantage of it is laziness, especially for a company that could afford to have a very nice and comprehensive site.

I think that it is significant indication of a change in opinion on what WotC products are to Hasbro. I do not think that Hasbro sees things like MtG or D&D as viable manufactured products for sale to bring in profit, but as instead Intellectual Properties from which Hasbro can license or convert into other media for profit. Case in point, it looks that while The Transformers property began as a series of toys with an animated series to help sell the toys, The Transformers is now a series of action-adventure movies with toys and animated series to support and promote the action-adventure movies.

Quote from: jeff37923;461064I do not think that Hasbro sees things like MtG or D&D as viable manufactured products for sale to bring in profit

You do realize that MtG has been doing extremely well and was even called out by name on one of the last few quarterly reports?

RPGs are money-holes from a "big publisher" standpoint, but Magic is still a very strong brand, and I've seen a pretty big resurgence in play in my own area, as well as a bunch of marketing across appropriate demographics, like Adult Swim, Penny-Arcade and PAX (they gave everyone a free starter deck in the convention swag-bag).  As far as WotC goes, Magic is still their lifeblood and it's doing well for them.

If I were to make a guess, based on the age of the material up on the website, I would guess that Hasbro created a presence for D&D at some point to see how it would fly, but the D&D material never sold enough volume to make it worthwhile to bother with updating the website with new product.

Any number of other guesses are possible. Maybe the D&D presence on the Hasbro site was added by a fan of D&D who found himself in a position to add the material, but it was dropped when that fan moved on from that position.

I don't know a great deal about maintaining websites that sell product, but for a company as large as Hasbro, selling as many different products as Hasbro, I imagine that whatever department that maintains the website must be required to manage a great deal of information--information which is often in flux as product lines are changed--from many different departments. Speaking from some experience, trying to keep up with deadlines when you depend on a dozen different people to provide information is a bitch. Keeping up with a tiny division which generates minuscule revenue simply may not be worth the effort, especially when that division already has its own dedicated web presence. Is this "short-sighted" or is it just a reasonable business decision?

EDIT: Ed's guess also seems just as plausible.

Quote from: Peregrin;461098You do realize that MtG has been doing extremely well and was even called out by name on one of the last few quarterly reports?

And sells in Wal-Mart and gets tons of support, etc..

Seanchai

I would guess that there is a deliberate attempt to seperate the Hasbro brand from the WotC brand, since each brand has aspects that could be perceived as harmful to the other, like Disney and Miramax (which is now also out of date, but at least I know that).  In that case, the error to be explained is the presence of the old D&D stuff, not the absence of the new stuff.