Meh. Forgive and forget. The hobby is better with him than without him.

Forgetting is foolish. Mazilewski. (?) has shown that he's not reliable, and anyone who trusts him with a kickstarter again is a moron.
I'm empathetic to the situation he was in, but his handling of it was bone-headed.

Quote from: Simlasa;1114961Meh. Forgive and forget. The hobby is better with him than without him.

I'm all for forgiving people once they've paid for their crime, or make a serious attempt to make it right.

He didn't. He just wants everything to go away and go back to the way it was. So fuck him and fuck his apologists.

What exactly did he do? Everyone keeps bringing it up but nobody actually says it.

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;1114986What exactly did he do? Everyone keeps bringing it up but nobody actually says it.

He ran a Kickstarter, spent the money, and ghosted his backers. The project was eventually saved, but the credit for that goes to Autarch not Maliszewski.

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;1114986What exactly did he do? Everyone keeps bringing it up but nobody actually says it.

He bailed on not one but two major projects that people were depending on him to fulfill: Dwimmermount, and Petty Gods. He repeatedly, publicly swore he was working hard on them and dedicated to finishing them, and then when it turned out he wasn't very good at completing projects and his life got hard he just up and walked away. No communication, no explanation, he just left.

Eventually, others picked up the ball for him and cleaned up his mess. And he never really apologized for it. He shrugged, made excuses, and left the field for a while.

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;1114986What exactly did he do? Everyone keeps bringing it up but nobody actually says it.

https://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?24039-Backers-pissed-at-James-M-and-Dwimmermount

Quote from: Pat;1114985I'm all for forgiving people once they've paid for their crime, or make a serious attempt to make it right.

I doubt there's any way he could pay for it or 'make it right'. He won't find support for another Kickstarter.
So what's the harm in letting things go and not dogging the guy to his grave over it?
Humans seem to have run dry on any form of forgiveness lately.

Quote from: Simlasa;1114995I doubt there's any way he could pay for it or 'make it right'. He won't find support for another Kickstarter.
So what's the harm in letting things go and not dogging the guy to his grave over it?
Humans seem to have run dry on any form of forgiveness lately.

That is the complete opposite of everything that's true. Humans have an abundance of forgiveness, especially in the RPG industry.  Which is barely an industry, and that's half the point. It's really a hobby, a great connected network of people, where some of the more dedicated work and publish because they want to, because they need to. We know that because we know they're not going to get rich. They probably won't even make a living wage. They do it out of love, and that's the fuel for that feeling of fellowship. Then double that dose of sympathy, and willingness to forgive, because we're also talking about crowd-funding. Because that's the whole point of the concept, at least back in the day of Dwimmercatastrophe: Helping someone and going along for the ride as they fulfill their dream.

If deadlines slip, nobody even blinks. Those dates that are hard and fast in nearly every other facet of the commercial world are so flexible that nobody even starts to worry until a project is years past due. And if the project creator underestimates costs, or overpromises, people are also abundantly forgiving. We all know that it can be a rough path from a concept or a promise to a final product, especially since you're not just acting as an author. To fulfill a project, you also need to be an art director, a project manager, a social maven, and dozen of other roles. If shipping was underestimated, many people voluntarily contribute more money. If certain goals have to be cut back, people understand. Even if projects fail and don't deliver, people are willing to write it off, as long as they get a half-decent explanation, the creator at least tries to provide something, and most of all, they're not abandoned.

Can you imagine that happening at Walmart? Or even a corner store? It's a cornucopia, a nearly-unlimited reservoir of good will.

But then you have some people who fuck that up for everyone else. People who make promises, and renege. Who don't explain what happened, who don't make a good faith effort to get their backers what they can, and who vanish of the face of the internet.

Bad actors ruin the concept for everyone, and apologists like you aid and abet them in destroying one of the absolute best things about the hobby.

You're right! FUCK HIM!
Let's track him down and set him on fire... in front of his children (does he have children? If not, maybe we can find some children to watch!)!!!
Maybe we could rape his dog in front of him before we strike the match (does he have a dog? If not, maybe we could find a dog that looks like the dog he had as a kid!)!!!

Yep, this is much more fun!

Quote from: Simlasa;1115001You're right! FUCK HIM!

Until he apologizes to his backers and does something to make amends, that's exactly what he's gonna get.

If he blogged a sincere apology and gave all his backers some free PDFs, he'd be forgiven enough to return to Grognardia and even Kickstarter. He clearly has fans who want him to get back on the horse, but until he steps up and does a mea culpa, he's gonna be blacklisted hard.

Quote from: Simlasa;1115001You're right! FUCK HIM!
Let's track him down and set him on fire... in front of his children (does he have children? If not, maybe we can find some children to watch!)!!!
Maybe we could rape his dog in front of him before we strike the match (does he have a dog? If not, maybe we could find a dog that looks like the dog he had as a kid!)!!!

Yep, this is much more fun!

Pats right though. Letting stuff like this slide "because hes one of us!" is damaging to honest designers and honest kickstarters. And people with a track record of trouble really should not be given the benefit of a doubt unless someone else has them on a really tight leash. And even then one should be wary.

Game Salute has made a business of this and continues to rip off backers on KS and ever further make things harder fro other games. Now we have Golden Bell pulling even worse underhanded stunts. There is an ever growing list of games these two companies have messed with and the increasingly convoluted trail of dummy fronts they put up to try and sucker backers. Should we all just shrug and go "oh well its gaming and we should forgive them."? No less than two former artist friends and players turned out to be a long running scam artists who have walked off with thousands of dollars in commission money.  One of whom who pulls sob story routines then half the time just decides he wont work on a project. The other keeps changing his name to lure in the unsuspecting. And on and on. Superdudes? Walked off with all the preorder money and started his own financing business. Chevalier skipped town with a quarter of a million funding for a game and if we hadnt hounded him and done investigation uncovering that he was spending it all on a new house and movie making equipment he likely would have gotten away with it. So you believe if he offered to "help" with another game we should just all go, "Yeah sure!"?

Yep, this is sooooo much more fun.

All I want to say to those calling others bad people my question them have you been ripped off by James Maliszewski, Mark Macgibbon of Guardians of Order infamy or other similar shady crooked dishonest rpg designers or companies. No then get off your moral high horse, stop pointing fingers and people chest and wagging said fingers going "bad evil people". Me too I would do the same if I never lost money to such people. I never did I do know two who lost money to Mark.

i would not even piss on both if they were on fire. I show them the exact amount of respect, compassion and sympathy which they keep showing their victims which is none. Which is why such amoral, sociopathic scum keep coming back into the hobby. Due to misguided apologist gamers.

Thing is, if James ever returned to Grognardia, he would quickly regain an audience. In this time probably an even bigger one than at the tail end of 4E, when he stopped blogging.

I certainly know I would read him again. However, I didn't back the KS, so I'm not a disgruntled investor.

Quote from: sureshot;1115017...i would not even piss on both if they were on fire. I show them the exact amount of respect, compassion and sympathy which they keep showing their victims which is none.

In this we agree, 100%. James has ensured that I'll never buy any game or gaming supplement from him, no matter how well written. One of the tenets, the foundation that makes our hobby a good one, is that the GM treats every player at the table with respect, and strives to be an impartial referee. As a GM and an author, if you take someone else's money for a game or game supplement, you should deliver that. Not doing so is theft, plain and simple. With traditional companies, the company is on the hook and must first produce the supplement to be sold.

Kickstarter changed this business model, Now authors can collect all of the money in advance, and have no actual obligation to deliver the product. This is one of the reasons I don't use Kickstarter as a game designer. They have actually never provided a level playing field, either for game publishers, or especially for the consumers. Yes we have gotten to see some great games and supplements from Kickstarter, These publishers could have literally done it themselves using their own website though, and developed their own customer base. This takes a lot of work to do, having your own client base makes you very strong. Paizo is an example of this. It takes dedication and commitment though.

 
lately James has been cozying up to the Tekumel crowd, runs games, and is part of a podcast or something, but I don't travel in his circles and don't plan to.

Another Kickstarter with funds mismanagement problems that I'm not at all happy about is the original Judges Guild Wilderlands Kickstarter sponsored by Bob Jr. In this particular case, they completely missed accurately forecasting both the actual cost to publish, as well as the cost of designing, casting, and shipping miniatures that were offered as pledge level rewards. Since then, there have been two additional Kickstarters, the CSIO Kickstarter which raised an additional $85K, with all of the original map art that was actually delivered by Rob Conley, but the guide itself and CSIO map still has not shipped in print to the buyers, Bob Bledsaw III and IV are working on getting that delivered albeit it slowly, and the Goodman Games reprints Kickstarter which raised $115k and has been successfully delivered. Some of the profits from this was supposed to go to fulfilling the original Wilderlands Kickstarter and the CSIO Kickstarter, but delivery has still not been made. About a month ago Bob Jr. had this to say in an update;

Our current situation: All proceeds that have come in from the Frog God Tegel Manor ks, earlier this year has been spent on the Campaign Maps (which are not finished - 3 remaining) and City State artwork, as originally agreed to in 2014. We are still in process of building funds for printing and shipping of the Books, which have been revised. As there is a totally new version for Pathfinder, and the CS version will need adjustments for that, I am open to suggestions (comments to jgww@comcast.net). I will try to answer all questions in a timely manner. Originally, I had placed a hold on all upcoming Guild products, pending this ks completion, but this seems to have hamstrung our efforts to build funds quite a lot, so I have permitted Aaron Bledsaw (my fourth son) to begin releasing those so that the funds will profit this project also. Another major project, which was to sweep away the problems here fell through (not of the Guild's fault) but just did not come to completion. These are projects that have been on hold since 2016, but unless I get more funds here, the wait will continue. Further, I have continued to ship the miniatures to the backers who ordered them as I can. To save money, I have not attended any cons this year, and have done much to cut expenses. Slow progress, yes, but I have not given up. Much has been added to the City State, using draft materials, and other unfinished works by Bob Sr., which I know will bring much joy. I wish this was over, and I hope you all know that I am doing what I can here. I close by thanking you all again for your support and loyalty to the Guild. If I can be of help in some other way, I would be glad to hear from you at the above email. -  Sincerely, Bob II

It's been like seven years since the original Kickstarter, and five since the CSIO followup. And still backers are waiting for published books. The only difference I'm seeing between James and the Bledsaws, is that the Bledsaws are still at least working at fulfilling the original orders, whereas James simply gave up. This is a credit to them, but I do wish they had been better at forecasting the actual costs of publishing and distribution.