I have a new group who is interested in trying Pendragon, and I'm not all to familiar with it (it always seems to happen that I get groups who want to play games I've never ran or played before), but there's some desire to change the setting from an Arthurian one, to the Viking Age, or perhaps the contest of the throne between Harald, Harold, and William, with a more gritty historical take on it, rather than the romanticism of Arthur.

Would it be much work to change things? Would I even really have to change much (the knightly virtues would be one thing I think)? Perhaps there's some source book out there that I could use to aid in things (I'm generally knowledgeable about the time periods at hand, and so on that front I wouldn't need too much really).

For reference, I have managed to get:

Pendragon 5th Edition
The Great Pendragon Campaign
Pendragon Saxons

I've never read Pendragon Saxons. To me Pendragon's system is so tied to the knightly Arthurian setting I'm not sure why one would adapt it for another setting. I can't see how one would adapt the expressly Arhurian Great Pendragon Campaign to a Viking setting. Or perhaps more exactly why you would do it. To adapt it to a historical setting would also seem to work expressly against the material.

I do love the stripped down BRP combat system in Pendragon, for me a great balance of 'realism' and simplicity. That would adapt well to a Viking or gritty historical setting.

I would suggest keep the combat mechanics but find a completely different source for the setting. The Vikings Historical Reference for 2e may be of use.

Unless I'm mistaken, Pendragon's underlying system is an adaption of the Basic Roleplaying rules from Chaosium. As such, you might check out the Basic roleplaying supplement Mythic Iceland:

You might be interested in 4th Edition Pendragon, which included source books supporting a very wide range of settings and campaigns - Vikings, Picts, Saxons, Irish, and a lower level of detail on a wide range of continental europeans. You could really play just about any broadly medieval european place or time. I would recommend sticking with the core system - it is easy to learn and well engineered, and its way of describing characters and their personalities and motivations is exceptionally well suited to these sorts of settings.

Quote from: Tristram Evans;945137Unless I'm mistaken, Pendragon's underlying system is an adaption of the Basic Roleplaying rules from Chaosium.

That's right. It removes the fiddly Runequest hit locations amd has a few other smart tweaks.

Cool, I can actually borrow that from a friend who has it. Thanks for the tip.

Weren't there some upcoming Pendragon releases I was reading about? A Samurai setting and a Musketeers setting?

I played a Samurai Pendragon homebrew at a convention in the ancient times. The GM had done so much work to reskin it felt like an entirely different game. Very fun, but deeply homebrewed. Didn't understand why the GM just didn't run Oriental Adventures or Bushido instead. [This was in the pre-L5R years]

The RuneQuest and Pendragon systems are obviously related, although I'd say the changes amount to more than just a few tweaks.

The Characteristics - now called Attributes - are just five physical ones: Size, Dexterity, Strength, Constitution and Appearance. The mental/social Attributes of RuneQuest are now solely replaced by skills in a few cases and otherwise in chart of Personality Traits. These are presented in a similar way to to a 20PF psychology test, with each trait being two-tailed (e.g. Lustful vs Chaste, etc). Characters also have Passions and various background details to flesh out what drives them in the story. There are less skills, generally, and magic is only really touched upon for NPCs as characters are all assumed to be Knights (or Ladies as fits female characters).

The Abilities are more defined in their use than classic RuneQuest, with more adapted uses overall and the derived attributes clearly stated. All rolls are based upon D20 rolls, rather than percentiles - although this converts easily enough and it does mean that there is no longer any scale difference between Characteristics and Skills as before.

Combat is reduced to a single, competitive D20 roll per combatant. You need to roll high, but below your own targeted Skill value. Highest successful roll gets to swing their weapon, with the loser soaking up the damage. There is no 'initiative roll' or Strike Ranks to deal with, nor are there hit locations. Armour, Size and Constitution are compared for things like damage reduction, knock back and major blows, with the damage effect being rolled on D6 dice pools based upon the combination of Strength and Size. It's a simpler system than RuneQuest, but tends to fit the fighting styles of medieval knights specifically. It can be deadly, and there are few healing options in the game.

The campaign structure of Pendragon is also developed into seasons and aims at long term play where characters develop legacies of children who grow up. It is generally assumed that all the characters will die - either through violence or old age. The tone of the game is different, with romance being an important theme in the narrative and of course there is a hearty literature source to delve into with it.

There was some talk before of another version of the game based upon the Frankish Empire - called Paladin(?) - which would fit. However, I'm not fully convinced yet about Samurai or other settings.

Quote from: TrippyHippy;945216The RuneQuest and Pendragon systems are obviously related, although I'd say the changes amount to more than just a few tweaks.

The Characteristics - now called Attributes - are just five physical ones: Size, Dexterity, Strength, Constitution and Appearance. The mental/social Attributes of RuneQuest are now solely replaced by skills in a few cases and otherwise in chart of Personality Traits. These are presented in a similar way to to a 20PF psychology test, with each trait being two-tailed (e.g. Lustful vs Chaste, etc). Characters also have Passions and various background details to flesh out what drives them in the story. There are less skills, generally, and magic is only really touched upon for NPCs as characters are all assumed to be Knights (or Ladies as fits female characters).

Yes, the dropping of the mental/spiritual characteristics is a big difference. While, Personality Traits were introduced first into RuneQuest in a Different Worlds article (not sure, might have been somewhere else) they didn't have any mechanical use in a game. In Pendragon, however, a player often has to test Personality Traits. In published scenarios, a failed Personality Trait roll often leads to PCs behaving in ways contrary to the player's intent. For me, Personality Traits are the most contentious part of the system as they are used, as typified by published scenarios, as a storygame-like mechanic where a PCs behaviour is dictated by what is genre and character appropriate rather than what the player wants to do, removing player agency. Passions are far less problematic and are always used in a positive fashion. A character invokes a passion to get a bonus on the action performed. Indeed, Paul Nash and Lawrence Whitaker added Passions into RuneQuest II and Mythras, but not Personality Traits.

Quote from: TrippyHippy;945216The Abilities are more defined in their use than classic RuneQuest, with more adapted uses overall and the derived attributes clearly stated. All rolls are based upon D20 rolls, rather than percentiles - although this converts easily enough and it does mean that there is no longer any scale difference between Characteristics and Skills as before.

Combat is reduced to a single, competitive D20 roll per combatant. You need to roll high, but below your own targeted Skill value. Highest successful roll gets to swing their weapon, with the loser soaking up the damage. There is no 'initiative roll' or Strike Ranks to deal with, nor are there hit locations. Armour, Size and Constitution are compared for things like damage reduction, knock back and major blows, with the damage effect being rolled on D6 dice pools based upon the combination of Strength and Size. It's a simpler system than RuneQuest, but tends to fit the fighting styles of medieval knights specifically. It can be deadly, and there are few healing options in the game.

To be honest the Pendragon "engine" is really just a simplified BRP using d20 rather than d100.

Quote from: TrippyHippy;945216The campaign structure of Pendragon is also developed into seasons and aims at long term play where characters develop legacies of children who grow up. It is generally assumed that all the characters will die - either through violence or old age. The tone of the game is different, with romance being an important theme in the narrative and of course there is a hearty literature source to delve into with it.

I would say that the dynastic element of Pendragon play really marks its major deviation from BRP. A Pendragon campaign is expected to run over decades of game time rather than months or years as in other RPGs.

Quote from: TrippyHippy;945216There was some talk before of another version of the game based upon the Frankish Empire - called Paladin(?) - which would fit. However, I'm not fully convinced yet about Samurai or other settings.

The game is called Paladin and is supposed to be kickstarted sometime this month, according to the author. From the Nocturnal Media forums, it appears to have been written some time ago. Whether it has been developed or edited, I'm not sure. I totally  agree that a game based on the chansons de geste is totally in the spirit of the original system.

As for other settings, I'm not sure. I think the system might work for a dynastic epic. It might work for a Sengoku Jidai (16th century Japan) samurai game where the PCs are trying to make their clan powerful and, eventually, become Shogun. I once owned the Pagan Shore (tribal Irish), Land of Giants (Vikings/Beowulf) and Saxons books and while they were interesting I don't think they really sat that well with the core Pendragon playstyle. I'm looking forward to Design Mechanisms's Mythic Britain: Saxons as I think it might make a superior replacement to Saxons. I would also say that Cubicle 7's Yggdrasill RPG, which is also set in 5th/6th century Scandinavia, is superior to Land of Giants.

Quote from: yojimbouk;945421As for other settings, I'm not sure. I think the system might work for a dynastic epic. It might work for a Sengoku Jidai (16th century Japan) samurai game where the PCs are trying to make their clan powerful and, eventually, become Shogun. I once owned the Pagan Shore (tribal Irish), Land of Giants (Vikings/Beowulf) and Saxons books and while they were interesting I don't think they really sat that well with the core Pendragon playstyle. I'm looking forward to Design Mechanisms's Mythic Britain: Saxons as I think it might make a superior replacement to Saxons. I would also say that Cubicle 7's Yggdrasill RPG, which is also set in 5th/6th century Scandinavia, is superior to Land of Giants.

As well, an ancient Greek Classic era setting is being released. Information here. I do like the idea of the player's creating divine blooded characters each in character of a city-state. I'll probably kickstart this, along with Paladin.

Wasn't there talk at one point about how there was going to be a Pendragon book set in the age of Charlemagne?  Or did that fall through? Or did I just dream it?

Quote from: RPGPundit;946106Wasn't there talk at one point about how there was going to be a Pendragon book set in the age of Charlemagne?  Or did that fall through? Or did I just dream it?

The Kickstarter is launching sometime this month; Greg Stafford himself is involved in getting it published.

I must respectfully disagree with those who have said that Pendragon should not be, or cannot be adapted. The Great Pendragon Campaign, of course, is only revelant to Arthurian adventure, but the 5th edition rules are easily adaptable to settings that have a similiar aesthetic. It can be as 'romantic' or as 'gritty' as you and your players want it to be, in agreement with whatever that means.

I ran a very successful Pendragon campaign converting the setting to a sad historical Scottish RPG set around the Jacobite rebellion of 1745. The only rules I changed were swapping muskets for bows and giving them a little bump in damage I think, and including bagpipes as a musical instrument.

People got to be in big battles, in small duels, to get drunk and highland dance, to woo fair maidens, to die in childbird, to have a horse go lame and the crops to fail and the English to oppress them, and the generations to contine rolling along the route of the Bonnie Prince Charlie. It was awesome.

I've also played in a Pendragon campaign that was a mutli-generational space opera, again with no change in rules other than renaming "swords" to "laser swords".

I highly recommend adapting Pendragon.

//Panjumanju

Quote from: Thegn Ansgar;945131I have a new group who is interested in trying Pendragon, and I'm not all to familiar with it (it always seems to happen that I get groups who want to play games I've never ran or played before), but there's some desire to change the setting from an Arthurian one, to the Viking Age, or perhaps the contest of the throne between Harald, Harold, and William, with a more gritty historical take on it, rather than the romanticism of Arthur.

Would it be much work to change things? Would I even really have to change much (the knightly virtues would be one thing I think)? Perhaps there's some source book out there that I could use to aid in things (I'm generally knowledgeable about the time periods at hand, and so on that front I wouldn't need too much really).

For reference, I have managed to get:

Pendragon 5th Edition
The Great Pendragon Campaign
Pendragon Saxons

Well, it worked great for Ivanhoe and Robin Hood-era England with barely any fuss at all as all the underlying rules work fine for any Dark Ages action. Only things that needed to be adapted were making the Saxons the "native" culture instead of Cymric, and adding in the Normans. 4th ed Pendragon already has plenty of material for doing that. I could see doing Beowulf as well, just changing the culture again as the technology is pretty well the same. And the dynastic rules and "one adventure per year" are easy to ignore if you aren't interested in that. Really I've found the only changes needed have been which Traits a culture values and what Passions a character might have. Blending Mythic Iceland into Pendragon should be pretty easy for Vikings, or using RuneQuest Vikings is always out there if you can locate a copy.