Harn / Columbia Games Take No Quarter Sale

Marchand · August 11, 2020, 11:17:24 PM

Harn is one of those games I've always wanted to learn more about. So my interest was piqued when I saw Columbia Games' sale advertised on Drivethru, badged "No Quarter Sale!".

I guess they mean they are taking no prisoners... 100-ish page supplements (e.g. region books, a supplement on sailing) routinely seem to run $30-$40 even on sale. This is for pdf's, mind. Core rules are a bit more reasonable at $15 but seems to be a gateway drug marketing model.

Any views on Harn? Rules or setting? Are these books anywhere near worth the prices?

Thondor · August 12, 2020, 12:24:55 AM

I am also interested in this.

It is worth noting that the Kelestia also has rights to Harn, and has products. https://www.kelestia.com/
I'm not really sure about any details on how that came about.

Columbia Games was originally based in British Columbia, and I think is now in Washington State? Kelestia is still based in Canada.

lordmalachdrim · August 12, 2020, 06:37:52 PM

Kelestia is owned by the estate of Harn's creator and claims to have sole rights to Harn. Columbia games makes similar claims and moved to the US in 94 when Robin Crosby (the creator of Harn) stopped making products for them.

It makes me question the legality of Columbia Games continued work on Harn if they changed countries when the creator of said game stopped working for them.

estar · August 12, 2020, 08:55:42 PM

https://www.lythia.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2703&p=29653&hilit=copyright+dispute#p29653

QuoteIf you've been away from Hârn for a while, or are a new fan, you may not be aware that there is a legal dispute between the creator of Hârn (N. Robin Crossby, or NRC) and the publisher of Hârn (Columbia Games Inc, or CGI). The purpose of this post is to describe the dispute briefly.

In July 2003, NRC formally informed CGI that he has terminated the contract between them. Henceforth, according to the terms of the termination clause within that existing contract, CGI had six months to dispose of all their Harn inventory, and they may not publish any new Hârn material, and that sole copyright reverted back to him.

CGI dispute this, stating that NRC does not have the right to terminate without seeking arbitration first, and that in any case NRC owes them material for moneys paid. In addition, CGI claim a 50% share in the copyright of Harn, and state therefore, that NRC simply cannot void their rights under international copyright law.

Naturally, this has left fans a little dazed, and frustrated. All of us would like to see the dispute resolved quickly, but this will apparently not happen, with neither side being able to afford any expensive, cross-border litigation. In the meantime, NRC has started his own eShop and is selling new and existing material in PDF format from that site, and CGI fully intend to go on publishing the HârnQuest line of products.

There were many references to the dispute on these boards, including some argument between the disputing parties. However, in late August 2003, both parties asked for their public statements to be removed from the HârnForum, as this did nothing more than irritate fans, and drive away potential customers. Once both parties requested this, I was obligated to comply, and happy to do so.

This thread will be corrected if I have made any substantial errors of fact, and updated if anything about the dispute changes. If you have any comments about this post, please feel free to send me a private message or e-mail me.

estar · August 12, 2020, 09:02:11 PM

Quote from: Marchand;1144443Any views on Harn? Rules or setting? Are these books anywhere near worth the prices?

Yes. Why? Because it has been at a consistent level of quality since it introduction in the mid 80s. One sign of this is that material made then is just as compatible today as it was back then. In the past 15 years the articles been a little longer adding more details on the personalities of the NPCs. Which really took them the next level.

If you want a free dose of what it like I recommend downing any of the Harn Pottage series from Lythia.com. Harn also has a huge base of fan created material some of it are outtakes that didn't make into the published articles. Most of it is of very high quality.

https://www.lythia.com/series/pottage/

TheHistorian · August 15, 2020, 07:28:01 PM

Harn is exceptionally high quality - writing, logic, art, consistency, etc. Everything ever produced fits together as one coherent world. For all that, they charge more. That they charge the same for print and pdf for many things is ridiculous. No argument.

For me, there is value there, so I buy it all. If the consistency is not what you're looking for out of the material, then it may (quite reasonably) not be good value for you. Even in that case, it's modular, so if you need just a city or a castle to drop into your game, you can buy an article for just that. If may still feel expensive, but you aren't locked into a huge expenditure of multiple books.

ThatChrisGuy · August 17, 2020, 12:01:06 PM

Harn books are overpriced in PDF, and even at the sale prices they're still more expensive than they're worth.

Marchand · August 19, 2020, 10:37:57 AM

How linked is the setting material to the rules? Could I play it in something rules-medium like BRP or D&D?

Brad · August 19, 2020, 10:54:19 AM

I'll throw this out there...I wanted to like Harn. I REALLY wanted to like Harn. I own quite a bit of it; couple months ago I bought the 3rd edition boxed set along with the magic book and some of the atlases. I've owned Harnmaster 2nd for about ten years. It always just seemed like a MERP knockoff in that it had extremely detailed setting books but the playability was questionable. But even things like Bree had possible adventures, and a novel you could use for help. Harn is, I dunno, too detailed for its own good maybe?

Shardenzar · August 19, 2020, 12:15:05 PM

Quote from: Marchand;1145499How linked is the setting material to the rules? Could I play it in something rules-medium like BRP or D&D?

I started running Harn with AD&D 1st Ed. And it was fine as long as you are willing to make some compromises on certain setting points. About a year into the campaign I switch to Harnmaster. That was 1986! Still walking the misty isle to this day. I know I am in the minority on this, but Harnmaster 1st Ed. is awesome. I love 80's clunky systems.

Jeff

estar · August 19, 2020, 01:06:26 PM

Quote from: Brad;1145501But even things like Bree had possible adventures, and a novel you could use for help. Harn is, I dunno, too detailed for its own good maybe?

It depends on what you buy. In general products that been added or totally revamped since 2008-2010 have a lot more on the personalities and give adventure hooks. Prior to that it was more of "Here is a locale, here are the people who live there and what they do." However for the most part the adventure possibilities are pretty low key. For example a Charcoaler while in the woods runs into trouble with an Ivashu or another creature kind of thing.