Quote from: Visitor Q on March 04, 2021, 09:21:47 PM
I never knew the Harlot Table existed before the EnWorld thread. Slovenly Trull is one of the funniest things I have ever read. It's even funnier because as far as I can tell there's no such slang term as trull, (but there probably should be).

My Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay Group has just reached Marienburg and if anyone doesn't think they are going to meet a slovenly trull in the next session, well they just haven't been paying attention.

I am actually factually, literally, crying with laughter over the harlot table. The follow up with saucy tart...it's so ridiculous.

Moved from another thread. But this brings up something thats not discussed enough really. The fact that alot of terms that seem made up, turn out to be actual real terms used once or even in some rare cases still used.

Trull = prosititute.
Strumpet = woman who is very sexually active.
Trollop = woman who is very sexually active.
Tart = woman who is very sexually active.
Wench = attractive girl
Doxy = a mistress.
Procuress = essentially a female procurer. In this case could mean brothel owner?

Several of these have over time also been used mean a prostitute. Even wench and tart and strumpet.
Bemusingly my grandmother would call some women floozies.
Tramp was another one used way back.
For men heard words like lothario, and cassanova used to be used quite a bit.

On the non-sexual side there are terms like cobbler for shoe repair people. Tinker for utensil repair people. Straw boss for an ineffectual boss. Raconteur (or Recounter as I've heard it) for a storyteller, and so on.

And this does not even get into local slang or local terms for things. My aunt used the term holler to refer to a swampy valley nearby where she grew up for example.

Anyone else have old or local terms for people, vocations or locations like that?

Quote from: Omega on March 05, 2021, 04:40:07 PM

Quote from: Visitor Q on March 04, 2021, 09:21:47 PM
I never knew the Harlot Table existed before the EnWorld thread. Slovenly Trull is one of the funniest things I have ever read. It's even funnier because as far as I can tell there's no such slang term as trull, (but there probably should be).

My Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay Group has just reached Marienburg and if anyone doesn't think they are going to meet a slovenly trull in the next session, well they just haven't been paying attention.

I am actually factually, literally, crying with laughter over the harlot table. The follow up with saucy tart...it's so ridiculous.

Moved from another thread. But this brings up something thats not discussed enough really. The fact that alot of terms that seem made up, turn out to be actual real terms used once or even in some rare cases still used.

Trull = prosititute.
Strumpet = woman who is very sexually active.
Trollop = woman who is very sexually active.
Tart = woman who is very sexually active.
Wench = attractive girl
Doxy = a mistress.
Procuress = essentially a female procurer. In this case could mean brothel owner?

Several of these have over time also been used mean a prostitute. Even wench and tart and strumpet.
Bemusingly my grandmother would call some women floozies.
Tramp was another one used way back.
For men heard words like lothario, and cassanova used to be used quite a bit.

On the non-sexual side there are terms like cobbler for shoe repair people. Tinker for utensil repair people. Straw boss for an ineffectual boss. Raconteur (or Recounter as I've heard it) for a storyteller, and so on.

And this does not even get into local slang or local terms for things. My aunt used the term holler to refer to a swampy valley nearby where she grew up for example.

Anyone else have old or local terms for people, vocations or locations like that?

My grandmother who lived in rural Ireland referred to Gypsies as tinkers. Though you're right that they often did repair jobs.

Probably worth noting for mediaeval style games that there was a surprising amount of specialist jobs. For example in making a bow and arrow you'd have a boyer, a fletcher and an arrow smith. Likely another profession making the shafts as well.

Stevedores and Teamsters for unloading ships and then transporting goods. They make a classic closed Guild in any dock city setting.

Mooncusser is supposedly a word for a wrecker. Though as a consistent form of robbery it is perhaps an urban legend.

Holler would presumably be Hollow, since it's a 'hollow' depression in the landscape.

Quote from: Visitor Q on March 05, 2021, 05:00:43 PM
My grandmother who lived in rural Ireland referred to Gypsies as tinkers.

Tinker was standard for what are now called Travellers (ethnic Irish gypsy-style nomads) and Roma (Romany Gypsies). It comes from the repairs done to tin ware, which before modern mass manufacture & disposable society was a big thing. People would repair holes burnt in their cooking pots, rather than throw them away when the handle breaks or even when the patina gets scratched like nowadays.

Quote from: Omega on March 05, 2021, 04:40:07 PM
Anyone else have old or local terms for people, vocations or locations like that?

A distinctly American set of categories;

Hobo - an itinerant worker.
Tramp - an itinerant who works only when forced to.
Bum - an layabout who refused to work.

The Hobo, as distinct from the other two had unions and a code of ethics (agreed to at a convention in 1889) associated with them...

• Decide your own life; don't let another person run or rule you.
• When in town, always respect the local law and officials, and try to be a gentleman at all times.
• Don't take advantage of someone who is in a vulnerable situation, locals or other hobos.
• Always try to find work, even if temporary, and always seek out jobs nobody wants. By doing so you not only help a business along, but ensure employment should you return to that town again.
• When no employment is available, make your own work by using your added talents at crafts.
• Do not allow yourself to become a stupid drunk and set a bad example for locals' treatment of other hobos.
• When jungling in town, respect handouts and do not wear them out; another hobo will be coming along who will need them as badly, if not worse than you.
• Always respect nature; do not leave garbage where you are jungling.
• If in a community jungle, always pitch in and help.
• Try to stay clean, and boil up wherever possible.
• When traveling, ride your train respectfully. Take no personal chances, cause no problems with the operating crew or host railroad; act like an extra crew member.
• Do not cause problems in a train yard; another hobo will be coming along who will need passage through that yard.
• Do not allow other hobos to molest children; expose all molesters to authorities – they are the worst garbage to infest any society.
• Help all runaway children, and try to induce them to return home.
• Help your fellow hobos whenever and wherever needed; you may need their help someday.
• If present at a hobo court and you have testimony, give it. Whether for or against the accused, your voice counts!

That above list is why I really don't mind fantasy adventurers being called "murder hobos"; i.e. itinerant workers who specialize in killing things.

I think my favorite is "wright", a general purpose carpenter.  It is more likely heard in some of its specialty versions, such as shipwright or wainwright (wagon maker), or of course wheelwright. 

Chandler is one you hear a lot - candle maker.

I was recently surprised to learn that "cobbler" was not a synonym for shoemaker.  Oh, no.  Cobbler is the English form of Cordswainer, which is a person who makes higher quality footwear (often boots) out of better leather--originally, Corduroy.  The lowly shoemaker is not on this exalted plane and often wasn't even allowed to form a guild.  Thus you have the powerful cobbler's guild and the poor, humble shoemaker in the same society.

In the southern USA, Hollow is often pronounced "Hollar", with some guttural emphasis on both vowels, but it is the same Holler identified by Omega.  You can holler to get an echo to go up and down the hollow--so a play on words by munging the sound of both words and stretching them out with a southern accent.     

Hollar may also just be carry-overs from british dialects.

I've met a more than a few brits who pronounce Omega as Omeger.

Even monsters can end up in the local dialect. Fallout made the Snallygaster popular but I know that from decades ago and its a monster that goes back decades more.

Hm? Never mind that.
What we need is an Advanced Harlot Table, with more names 
How about:
Honest hooker
Glamorous geisha
For a modern setting: carefree call-girl

Quote from: Trond on March 06, 2021, 07:23:44 AM
Hm? Never mind that.
What we need is an Advanced Harlot Table, with more names 
How about:
Honest hooker
Glamorous geisha
For a modern setting: carefree call-girl

Expensive Escort? Minx Masseuse?

Geisha are not prostitutes! They're formal hostesses and entertainers, in an honorable profession. They're not even a front for prostitution in a "wink, wink" sort of way.

Prostitution was legal in medieval Japan, with the proper credentials, and the Japanese were fairly open about it. But geisha were forbidden from working as prostitutes. A Japanese person would be expected to know the difference.

A high-end geisha-like prostitute would be called an oiran. There are many other Japanese terms for prostitutes of various types.

Quote from: S'mon on March 06, 2021, 07:25:26 AM

Expensive Escort? Minx Masseuse?

Minx is apparently another relatively old word. See it get used even now-a-days sometimes.

One little used now but one I know of and used as part of the title of one of my books was defile, a narrow pass. Though originally I thought it meant some sort of rocky badlands, when instead it was referring to a pass IN the badlands when I heard it used.

Odd one heard used for locations but does not seem standard was tumult for a heavily rocky area or one with rock outjuttings.

Quote from: Lurkndog on March 06, 2021, 10:08:25 AM
Geisha are not prostitutes! They're formal hostesses and entertainers, in an honorable profession. They're not even a front for prostitution in a "wink, wink" sort of way.

Prostitution was legal in medieval Japan, with the proper credentials, and the Japanese were fairly open about it. But geisha were forbidden from working as prostitutes. A Japanese person would be expected to know the difference.

A high-end geisha-like prostitute would be called an oiran. There are many other Japanese terms for prostitutes of various types.

I have heard it presented like that, but honestly? I don't believe this is true. The history of geisha is intermingled with prostitution from the start, even when some of them were men. It's become an art form so they try to give it a cleaner image. In a society with mores like old Japan, a woman who entertains men in private probably provided sexual acts as well, even if they may have been much more exclusive than common prostitutes.

Quote from: Trond on March 06, 2021, 11:29:44 AM

Quote from: Lurkndog on March 06, 2021, 10:08:25 AM
Geisha are not prostitutes! They're formal hostesses and entertainers, in an honorable profession. They're not even a front for prostitution in a "wink, wink" sort of way.

Prostitution was legal in medieval Japan, with the proper credentials, and the Japanese were fairly open about it. But geisha were forbidden from working as prostitutes. A Japanese person would be expected to know the difference.

A high-end geisha-like prostitute would be called an oiran. There are many other Japanese terms for prostitutes of various types.

I have heard it presented like that, but honestly? I don't believe this is true. The history of geisha is intermingled with prostitution from the start, even when some of them were men. It's become an art form so they try to give it a cleaner image. In a society with mores like old Japan, a woman who entertains men in private probably provided sexual acts as well, even if they may have been much more exclusive than common prostitutes.

To keep it within the context of RPGs, having played L5R recently I did a reasonable amoung of research on this topic and I broadly agree with Trond on this.

I think with any kind of transactional relationship involving sex what is being defined as prostitution becomes very blurred very quickly.  Not only are you contending with what is actually happening (i.e fundamentally is money being exchanged for sex) you are also contending with the cultural definition of a prostitute. For example the mistresses of 17th European Kings are rarely described in as stark a term as prostitutes but quite a lot of them were or had been. Also worth noting that actresses at this time had a reputation/was a euphamism for being prostitutes. 

With geishas I think it is fair to say that they operated in a different and potentially even unique manner to other sex workers.  However to suggest there is a very clear difference between geishas and prostitutes or there it is simply a modern confusion between equating the two I think is being slightly naive as to what actually happened.

For a roleplay of course this is great as it allows a wide spectrum of behaviour to suit the needs of the story and it would be perfectly acceptable to present geishas in an idealised manner.   

All that being said if I've just arrived in town after a long week of slaying orcs I don't want someone to recite poetry about cherry blossoms falling.  I'll be hoping for a Saucy Tart or a Wanton Wench.  Of course I'd conceed to poetry recital in a tastefully okiya if the alternative was a Slovenly Trull though.

Quote from: Trond on March 06, 2021, 11:29:44 AM
I have heard it presented like that, but honestly? I don't believe this is true. The history of geisha is intermingled with prostitution from the start, even when some of them were men. It's become an art form so they try to give it a cleaner image. In a society with mores like old Japan, a woman who entertains men in private probably provided sexual acts as well, even if they may have been much more exclusive than common prostitutes.

Frankly, actors/entertainers in pretty much every culture have been always been associated with prostitution and petty crime (the exception being the Religious/Culture Teachers like the Bards) to the point that I actually considered merging my system's entertainer background with the outlaw background at one point (ultimately deciding against it only because some settings might need the distinction).

It's one reason why I like systems which provide a lot of flexibility over career choice once the game has started.  The very reason your're an adventurer might be because your options if you stayed in your home town might have been prostitution, utterly menial work or begging.

As for the Advanced Harlot table, perhaps Bawdy Actress?