It is not that well known because it is similar to Hannibal's victory.   It is not often the big bad empire took an L once they decided they needed a full time military and started expanding.  Victory for Rome might as well be Monday, or Friday, just another day of the week.   Getting a large setback.... well that makes the books so to speak. 

Quote from: oggsmash on May 19, 2021, 12:26:57 PM
   It is not that well known because it is similar to Hannibal's victory.   It is not often the big bad empire took an L once they decided they needed a full time military and started expanding.  Victory for Rome might as well be Monday, or Friday, just another day of the week.   Getting a large setback.... well that makes the books so to speak.

Greetings!

Yes, isn't that the truth, Ogg? Of course, the Empire would strike back and get its vengeance!

I think that Rome's counter-attack along the German frontier--for several *years*--in some ways reminds me of the Roman counter-attack in Britain after Boudicca's Revolt. The Roman Governor is said to have slaughtered so many Britons, raped, burned, and absolutely plundered so much of Britain that the Roman Emperor had to check the Roman Governor. The Governor was honoured, and transferred to a different province. The Roman wrath in Britain was so severe and ruthless that it threatened the continued prosperity of the province as a whole, and for about a year, Roman legions marched throughout Britain, making everything an absolute wasteland. There were no restrictions, no restraints of any kind. Anything and anyone native to Britain, was ripe for Romans to slaughter, oppress, and terrorize as they desired.

Britain was a nice, quiet province for a long time after that terrible Roman vengeance.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: Greentongue on May 17, 2021, 01:32:20 PM
"Gorilla" warfare at its finest.
The environment can be the best weapon as long as the players don't feel you are intentionally giving them a hard time. 
Not all players have been in rough country to understand its dangers.

That is a great point. This is for my face to face game in Idaho, which doesn't mean everyone has gotten lost like I have in bad terrain, I am hoping to convey dread and terror over being railroaded into a box canyon. Fingers crossed! 

Quote from: SHARK link=topic=43539.msg1172977#msg1172977

Greetings!

Hey my friend! Carnivorous Ape Folk! I love that! All them weird sounds they make!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

I'm hoping to use weird sounds attributed to bigfoot from a recording made in California in the 70s that is very creepy.

I'll just say it, I feel it hanging in the air unsaid...your players will always, always, expect you to allow them to carry out tactics like this with their hirelings against npc forces but will always, always then get angry and a little catty when npc forces use these tactics on them. This is all before any folded portable hole bag holding arrows of spatial inversion or whatever.

Quote from: Slipshot762 on May 21, 2021, 07:07:22 AM
I'll just say it, I feel it hanging in the air unsaid...your players will always, always, expect you to allow them to carry out tactics like this with their hirelings against npc forces but will always, always then get angry and a little catty when npc forces use these tactics on them. This is all before any folded portable hole bag holding arrows of spatial inversion or whatever.

Not mine.  I nip that in the bud any time it even hints at making an appearance.  It's either one of two things:  I did something they want to copy because of how nasty it was or they tried something kind of questionable from a rules/setting perspective.  In the first case, I tell them flat out that the opponents will be a range of incredibly stupid to fiendishly clever and it is up to the players to take that into account when deciding who to mess with.  In the second case, I stop the game and ask them if they want the world/setting to work the way they are about to make it work.  Because if it works that way, moderately clever NPCs are going to use the same tricks.  Sometimes they decide that is OK.  Sometimes they pause and decide that they don't want NPCs springing that gambit on them at some later time.

In this way, we come to a consensus over time about what is kosher and what is not.

Quote from: Slipshot762 on May 21, 2021, 07:07:22 AM
I'll just say it, I feel it hanging in the air unsaid...your players will always, always, expect you to allow them to carry out tactics like this with their hirelings against npc forces but will always, always then get angry and a little catty when npc forces use these tactics on them. This is all before any folded portable hole bag holding arrows of spatial inversion or whatever.

Greetings!

Yes, Slipshot, the players are certain to always want to employ the coolest and most brutally effective tactics against their enemies! *laughing* But yes, they certainly take a dim view when such tactics are used against them and their own forces, don't they?

I sometimes remind my players, "Gang, these enemies you face are not morons. They are quite skilled in warfare and taking care of business--especially here, in their homeland!"

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: SHARK on May 27, 2021, 04:48:25 AM

Quote from: Slipshot762 on May 21, 2021, 07:07:22 AM
I'll just say it, I feel it hanging in the air unsaid...your players will always, always, expect you to allow them to carry out tactics like this with their hirelings against npc forces but will always, always then get angry and a little catty when npc forces use these tactics on them. This is all before any folded portable hole bag holding arrows of spatial inversion or whatever.

Greetings!

Yes, Slipshot, the players are certain to always want to employ the coolest and most brutally effective tactics against their enemies! *laughing* But yes, they certainly take a dim view when such tactics are used against them and their own forces, don't they?

I sometimes remind my players, "Gang, these enemies you face are not morons. They are quite skilled in warfare and taking care of business--especially here, in their homeland!"

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Show don't tell--sometimes the best reminder is to just have the bad guys destroy the PCs in combat leading to a rout or (more likely, since "PCs don't run" idiocy tends to be common) a TPK.

Then discover that PCs tend to have a form of ancestral/inherited memory as each benefits from the prior experiences of the player. Unfortunately, sometimes that works against them too if previous DMs have been too lenient.

Quote from: SHARK on May 27, 2021, 04:48:25 AM

Quote from: Slipshot762 on May 21, 2021, 07:07:22 AM
I'll just say it, I feel it hanging in the air unsaid...your players will always, always, expect you to allow them to carry out tactics like this with their hirelings against npc forces but will always, always then get angry and a little catty when npc forces use these tactics on them. This is all before any folded portable hole bag holding arrows of spatial inversion or whatever.

Greetings!

Yes, Slipshot, the players are certain to always want to employ the coolest and most brutally effective tactics against their enemies! *laughing* But yes, they certainly take a dim view when such tactics are used against them and their own forces, don't they?

I sometimes remind my players, "Gang, these enemies you face are not morons. They are quite skilled in warfare and taking care of business--especially here, in their homeland!"

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Yeah, I've had that happen. Had to be real careful as a player about busting out some of the nastier magic tricks because I knew our GM was going to take notes. Definitely didn't want him getting any ideas!

Something else to consider, if you're playing a fantasy game: those forests may not be occupied solely by barbarians.

Elves. Dryads. Nymphs. Fey. Treants. Green dragons. Plenty of nonhuman allies to make an invading force squirm.

What if the barbarian tribes are being guided by a reclusive green dragon who prefers NOT to be interrupted by damnable Roman expies? Or perhaps there's a tradition among such forest barbarians of their young men paying homage (and perhaps a bit more) to the fey queen who rules the deepest woods?

So a bit late to the Party but here are my two cencts.
So the Romans gave the Forest in the South of Germany the name Nigra Silva which translates to Black Forest or in German Schwarzwald. And they didn´t chose the Name because they shed Tears of Joy when entering the Forest, more so because they feared it.

And so in Games which involved some deep and dark Forests I always gave the "Invaders" a Moral penalty to mirror this feeling.