Quote from: Ghostmaker on January 05, 2024, 10:14:52 AM
We've discussed this before.

If you want to run a high lethality game, that's your gig. But don't expect me to expend more than a token effort on giving my PC some characterization if he's got approximately the same survival chances of a rookie in X-Com.

The same goes for optimization and character construction. If you're playing in a high lethality game, you might not want to spend all that time teasing out every scrap of bonus if you run the risk of it all going to waste the next time you fail a saving throw. Save the optimization for later levels.

Right, and without putting words in your mouth:

Would you prefer to know up front?

and

Is 5e typically high-lethality in your experience?

Quote from: mcbobbo on January 05, 2024, 10:19:50 AM

Quote from: Ghostmaker on January 05, 2024, 10:14:52 AM
We've discussed this before.

If you want to run a high lethality game, that's your gig. But don't expect me to expend more than a token effort on giving my PC some characterization if he's got approximately the same survival chances of a rookie in X-Com.

The same goes for optimization and character construction. If you're playing in a high lethality game, you might not want to spend all that time teasing out every scrap of bonus if you run the risk of it all going to waste the next time you fail a saving throw. Save the optimization for later levels.

Right, and without putting words in your mouth:

Would you prefer to know up front?

Yes. Springing 'high lethality' at the outset without warning is a cocksucker move. Ramping up difficulty is a different thing, as well as leaving pointed reminders (dead adventurers are good for this) that things are getting serious.

Quote
and

Is 5e typically high-lethality in your experience?

No. It's actually hard to die in 5E unless you spectacularly fuck up, outside of a handful of effects.

Greetings!

There are people that are only interested in a game if it allows for a huge investment of time.

Yeah, I can see that being true.

5E D&D started out reasonably simple and quick. Gradually, however, it too, has continually embraced more, and more, and more.

It is not difficult for even a normal, average player that isn't a wanna-be failed drama student, to easily take several hours to make up one character.

I don't purposely run a "Killer Campaign"--but there is a decent degree of danger. As always, though, the lethality factor for *Stupid Characters* remains extremely high. *Laughing*

All of this shrieking about 5E players is one reason that I love Shadowdark.

Shadowdark is engineered from the very beginning to be simple, quick, and brutal.

Roll 3d6 dice, place stats in order. A few randomized dice rolls to determine a special class ability, a starting Adventurer's Gear Pack, a small selection of spells, and done.

Creating an entirely new Character that is ready to adventure takes less than 10 minutes. If you wanted to really stretch it, you could run to the local convenience store for a Big Gulp tanker soda and some smokes, and by the time you got back, a player could be done rolling up their Shadowdark Character, have them fully detailed, and at that point, have also added whatever enhanced details. *Laughing*

It probably isn't wise to invest more than 15 minutes of time into creating a Character for Shadowdark. In Shadowdark, the Player Characters are not built from the beginning to be uber-powerful superheroes. Their characters are normal people, with maybe a bit more talent or luck than the average person. Not by much though, in any event. Shadowdark Charaacters don't start out special at all. YOU need to work at becoming special.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK