Starting this thread because of this request;
Quote from: J Arcane;519803This is my experience as well, and exactly what I was getting at, thank you.
This is a summary and not the full rules but should give you an idea about HM Honor.
HackMaster 4th Edition and the new version both have a concept known as "Honor." HM Honor isn't a reflection of how "Honorable" your character is in the traditional definition of the word but how well the character acts within his Race/Class/Alignment AND defense of his personal Honor. Character have a numerical Honor value that starts as an average of all 7 HM Attributes(Strength, Int, Wis, Dex, Charisma, Con, Comliness/Looks). Each character has a Honor Category based on how much Honor they have and their level. As the character goes up in level the number of honor points needed to be in each category goes up. The categories are;
Too Much Honor
Great Honor
Average Honor
Low Honor
Dishonor
Average Honor is just that Average. Great Honor represents a character that is the epitome of their Race/Class/Alignment. Too Much Honor means the character is viewed by the Fates and/or Gods as being "Too Uppity" or something similar. Characters in Too Much Honor or Dishonor will be looked upon by NPCs as scum, Bartenders will spit in their drinks, Merchants will overcharge them, etc.
Other things that Honor are good for is that a Player can spend the character's Honor Points for various things.
In HackMaster 4th Edition each character has a "Honor Die" depending on his Honor Category and Character Level. A player can spend 10 Points of Honor to add his Honor Die to any die roll, but the Player has to declare it ahead of the roll. Also, a Player can also burn 90% of the Character's Honor to avoid any one situation, once, i.e. avoid being in the path of a Dragon's Breath or hit by a trap. This is called a Honor Purge. The Honor Purge can only save the character, no one else and the GM must agree to the reason why the character was saved, perhaps the character tripped and fell out of the way of the falling rock. Also, in HM4 a character in Great Honor gets a +1 to every Die Roll and gets one Mulligan per Game Session.
In the new version of HackMaster, Honor is defined the same way and the same categories but the Honor Purge is gone and any character no matter what Honor Category can burn 10 points of Honor to either get a Mulligan or force an enemy to reroll, but only a roll that directly affected the character burning the Honor Points. Also a Character in Great Honor gets the one Free Mulligan.
Gaining Honor is tough. It's not like Star Wars(WEG d6) Force Points where you regain what you spend. You gain Honor only by roleplaying your character as per Race/Class/Alignment and defending your personal honor, i.e. if some uppity NPC insults you, you don't back down. You can also lose honor by not being an Adventurer, if you wuss out and retire in the middle of your career...
Interesting. Might steal that a bit.
What it does is give the player a way to, in an emergency, alter a die roll to prevent a character death, but yet the system is designed so that if you are constantly depending on it, then you will soon fall into Dishonor. It is also a way to reward the Player for playing in character, i.e. play a Mage like a Mage and a Thief like a Thief, and also encourages sticking to the alignment that you pick...
Quote from: greylond;519837What it does is give the player a way to, in an emergency, alter a die roll to prevent a character death, but yet the system is designed so that if you are constantly depending on it, then you will soon fall into Dishonor. It is also a way to reward the Player for playing in character, i.e. play a Mage like a Mage and a Thief like a Thief, and also encourages sticking to the alignment that you pick...
It reminds me of Warhammer's Fate Points, except based more around the idea of RP reward rather then mission reward. I could use a small incentive other then XPs, so it's cool.
Yea, in HM4 there was a whole big list of things that you got honor for. Completing a quest was one of them. In HMb/HM the Honor is tied to the Level Advancement. Each character is rated by the GM in 4 areas, Class, Alignment, Quirks/Flaws and Defense of Honor from -4 to +4. The GM assigns an Honor Award each level based on that. Average play in all 4 means that you might get 2 to 6 Honor, Absolute GREAT Roleplay means you top out at 16 pts of Honor for that level. So, if you are finding yourself spending 10+ honor points in a level, you are probably going in the hole.
Quote from: greylond;519837It is also a way to reward the Player for playing in character, i.e. play a Mage like a Mage and a Thief like a Thief, and also encourages sticking to the alignment that you pick...
Back in the day, I remember some DMs who were hardcore sticklers for stuff like this.
Some DMs would outright dock XP points from players who did not "properly" play their class, alignment, etc ... A few DMs even fudged dice rolls against the players (and in favor of the monsters/badguys), for similar infractions.
It helps to understand when you realize that the Kenzer&Co D-Team is a bunch of 1st Edition AD&D "By the Book" grognards. They write rules that encourage the feel/style of old school play, or at least they try to write a game that they love to play. Personally, I think they are great at it. They write the style of games that I would if I could...
I'm making a character whose base HON is -3 -- because of being lower lower class and his family facing great dishonor. The BP penalty chart 1H only goes down to an HON of 1. Is there no negative base HON? Or should I straightline the BP penalty so if 1 is -9, -3 is -13? Curious!
I love the idea that personal honor can be sensed by everyone and anyone you meet can smell dishonor on you like a stink. :)
Its a great cure for players who love doing despicable things and are careful to leave no witnesses. The stink of their treachery will follow them wherever they go.
Everytime I hear about Hackmaster's "Honor" system any more, an Oglaf comic strip comes to mind.
I do not dare even post a link to it here. I like posting here and getting permabanned would suuuuuuck.
"BLOOD AND THUNDER!" "VICTORY AT SEA!"
Quote from: thedungeondelver;705705Everytime I hear about Hackmaster's "Honor" system any more, an Oglaf comic strip comes to mind.
Let go of your hate.
Quote from: CRKrueger;705852Let go of your hate.
What? The strip in question is hilarious.
Quote from: thedungeondelver;705857What? The strip in question is hilarious.
Ok Jeff. ;)
Quote from: CRKrueger;705858Ok Jeff. ;)
Huh?
Was the honor system expanded in the class books? I read up on it in the HM4E DMG and PHB, and it did not seem all that interesting (but maybe runs better in play).
These two books did not really talk about the class aspect, were these rules in the splats?
Also, was their ever a masterlist of honor? I know HM4e loved, loved, loved ginormous charts!
Even if you have the hate for HM4e, you have to give it cred for keeping 1970s Gary in print! It was not even a retroclone, an actual clone with bits thrown in.
For myself, I hate the notion. Alignment is an idiotic enough concept without providing a highly visible and complicated mechanic where the GM and every NPC beats you over the head with how You're Not Playing Your Character Right.
If I think a player's doing a good job of roleplaying, then I give him or her more XP. (Certainly no part of that assessment involves How You're Supposed To Play A Thief, say.) That's it. Simple, easy, no arguments.