The sky above the library GW sat in was the colour of television tuned to constant fucking rain.

What draws you to a cyber wiz character? A hacker/computer/systems wiz (not specifically an engineer)? How to make such character types interesting? Can they ever be interesting?

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;613717The sky above the library GW sat in was the colour of television tuned to constant fucking rain.

What draws you to a cyber wiz character? A hacker/computer/systems wiz (not specifically an engineer)? How to make such character types interesting? Can they ever be interesting?

I am sure all the tech geeks on here find that vaguely insulting

It works fine as long as you don't turn tech skills into their own time consuming subgame, like in CP2020. Two good examples of "adventurer techies" I can think of would be Kaplan in the first Resident Evil movie and Rodney McKay on Stargate Atlantis.

Know what your skills can do (for example set software booby trap to activate system X when event Y happens), make a simple roll or two, and do them. McKay would be the ideal example of this kind of potent yet streamlined techniness, that's how I usually run techies in my games. Not only interesting, but without whom the group would be in big trouble almost every single game.

Lets say your common vision of the stereotypical fantasy party is the fighter (fighting) wizard (artillery and increasingly everyone else's job) priest (medic) and thief (lockpicker and trap finder). You can't just apply that template to sci fi and expect it to work. Everyone in sci fi is a fighter with artillery, as long as they can purchase grenades anyway, the basic roles are different. Techies serve purposes that can't really be described in terms of D&D, but are every bit as interesting and sometimes as powerful as the wizard.

The trick is to have a list of possible actions with the tech skill and let the player go wild with that, great fun altogether.

Quote from: jibbajibba;613721I am sure all the tech geeks on here find that vaguely insulting

They shouldn't. I'm not presuming either way. But I'd like to knwo what people look for or want out of such characters, assuming a potent level of technology (ie at least your average cyberpunk, so not just Barney in Mission Impossible)

PS: Barney in MI was awesome (for a man permanently stuck in the dry wall rewiring shit ).

Quote from: The Traveller;613726The trick is to have a list of possible actions with the tech skill and let the player go wild with that, great fun altogether.

But how to make those interesting and useful (ie not horribly situational) actions.

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;613727They shouldn't. I'm not presuming either way. But I'd like to knwo what people look for or want out of such characters, assuming a potent level of technology (ie at least your average cyberpunk, so not just Barney in Mission Impossible)

PS: Barney in MI was awesome (for a man permanently stuck in the dry wall rewiring shit ).



But how to make those interesting and useful (ie not horribly situational) actions.

There are plenty of ways to make techies fun to play. I agree that subgames should be avoided as they are boring for everyone else.
You can compre tech to magic a techguy can do a thing with components to create a situatonal effect but ti can be a situational effect dran out of the current situation and therefore vital.
Say you need to break into a medical facility the techie can hack the security, change the parameters of the sensors etc etc . Need to get some information on the govenor for a blackmail scam ask the techie etc etc ...

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;613727But how to make those interesting and useful (ie not horribly situational) actions.

I'm not sure I understand, in "cyberpunk and beyond" type tech levels information systems should be embedded everywhere. A quick interface might turn your Star Trek sliding doors into Star Wars sliding doors when closing, which can also be keyed to one specific person's ID code. Yes tech skills won't be much use in the bush, but bush skills aren't much use in a glass and steel urban metropolis either.

If you watch every episode of SG:A and note down what McKay does (the tech advisors on that show did a bang up job, its pretty realistic in that regard), you'll end up with a list of ten or twelve tech actions that can be mixed and matched like magic types and methods in Ars Magica or Mage. It's then up to the GM whether or not these should be all under one skill or made into individual skills.

Quote from: The Traveller;613733If you watch every episode of SG:A and note down what McKay does (the tech advisors on that show did a bang up job, its pretty realistic in that regard), you'll end up with a list of ten or twelve tech actions that can be mixed and matched like magic types and methods in Ars Magica or Mage. It's then up to the GM whether or not these should be all under one skill or made into individual skills.

I sense a new thread (or an expansion on this thread). Maybe even one that could tie into the Kessler Syndrome.

And... go!

Quote from: Daddy Warpig;613734I sense a new thread (or an expansion on this thread). Maybe even one that could tie into the Kessler Syndrome.

And... go!

Ah we'll see at the weekend, people keep expecting me to do things in exchange for money at the moment now the holidays are over. A thread about the different character archetypes and expectations in sci fi versus fantasy might also be fun.

Quote from: The Traveller;613733I'm not sure I understand, in "cyberpunk and beyond" type tech levels information systems should be embedded everywhere. A quick interface might turn your Star Trek sliding doors into Star Wars sliding doors when closing, which can also be keyed to one specific person's ID code. Yes tech skills won't be much use in the bush, but bush skills aren't much use in a glass and steel urban metropolis either.

If you watch every episode of SG:A and note down what McKay does (the tech advisors on that show did a bang up job, its pretty realistic in that regard), you'll end up with a list of ten or twelve tech actions that can be mixed and matched like magic types and methods in Ars Magica or Mage. It's then up to the GM whether or not these should be all under one skill or made into individual skills.

What I mean to say is that I'm referring to characters that have access to a considerable level of tech. Not just mere hackers in the modern world.  So yes, info systems should be embedded everywhere (within reason). Hence mentioning Riggers (as i understand the term, a shadowrun class specialising in control of remote units and drone systems like permanent CoD killstreaks).

I'm afraid I did not watch every episode of SGA, in fact I can barely remember the pilot which is about all I saw.

But what attracts these kinds of characters to players. Why would you want to play one, if you do.

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;613753What I mean to say is that I'm referring to characters that have access to a considerable level of tech. Not just mere hackers in the modern world.  So yes, info systems should be embedded everywhere (within reason). Hence mentioning Riggers (as i understand the term, a shadowrun class specialising in control of remote units and drone systems like permanent CoD killstreaks).

I'm afraid I did not watch every episode of SGA, in fact I can barely remember the pilot which is about all I saw.

But what attracts these kinds of characters to players. Why would you want to play one, if you do.

Riffing on Traveller's comment techies are like a wizard-thief class (if a system has pisonics they are the pure wizards) go if a player likes wizards or clever trickster rogue types the techie is a good parallel.

Quote from: jibbajibba;613757Riffing on Traveller's comment techies are like a wizard-thief class (if a system has pisonics they are the pure wizards) go if a player likes wizards or clever trickster rogue types the techie is a good parallel.

Strong agreement here. The techie is to SF games as the thief is to D&D. Or perhaps it would be best to say the the thief is D&D's techie?

Anyway, both archetypes correspond to characters with a pretty important non-combat niche that offers a distinct set of intellectual challenges that appeals to certain sorts of player.

Not counting that fiction has its share of inspiring greasemonkeys, hackers, and of course, pilots.

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;613753I'm afraid I did not watch every episode of SGA, in fact I can barely remember the pilot which is about all I saw..

You should, it takes a season to get rolling but its a good show, I'm working with some of the cast at the moment on a seperate project, and just got an email to remind me of this in case christmas excesses had done me in. Great people to be honest.

Shotgun Rasta has some dread epiphany and becomes a Data Jockey, able to access the fourth dimension (the flow of electronic data) and accelerate/slow/merge/disrupt the flowing by 'mixing it' . He can do this with carrying out the other stuff - physical intrusion, eating a synthi-burger, fighting vat ninjas - but this multi-tasking has a penalty at lower levels.

Meanwhile Miki Lao the teenage Tao can be 'at One' with the data, travelling via the flow, surging through feedback loops, discerning sources of data, consulting Data Guardians - just think electronic rather than ethereal. Of course he can do this while having a slash after too much shaojiu, or being massaged in the tub by some uptown Yiji. Miki ain't got time to meditate - but this multi-tasking has a penalty at lower levels.

In the phuture, everyone's a tech to some extent - not just geeks - so yeah, they can be interesting.

Quote from: The Butcher;613791Strong agreement here. The techie is to SF games as the thief is to D&D. Or perhaps it would be best to say the the thief is D&D's techie?

That makes sense to me... maybe because my preference towards magic is to have it be unpredictable/arbitrary/dangerous... and technology shouldn't be quite so rambunctious.
I'm not sure who the wizards are in an SF game (that doesn't have psionics).

Quote from: Simlasa;614716I'm not sure who the wizards are in an SF game (that doesn't have psionics).