There was the deliberate mispronunciation of Gary's name at Gencon by the leftard douche for instance I believe last year.  My two cents is don't give WotC any money, turn people in your gaming groups against WotC by showing them the deliberate shit they do (thank you Kyle Brink you got two of my players to no longer pay for your content) and move players to other games.  Use WotC 5E at your hobby shops as a gateway to introduce players to other games.  I normally run a 2 hour adventurers league during the week and on Sundays a 4 hour DCC, the extra time is the incentive to get people off D&D 5E.  And we can use Adventurer League scheduling by WotC against them.  Make sure to educate your hobby shop if "hey do you guys get the D&D Beyond code, I get that from the Wizards store, no they don't do that for you?  I'd like to buy from you but I use D&D Beyond its going to make it hard to buy D&D Books from you".

Essentially, the more disrespectful and censorious leftard WotC becomes, become an anti-consumer and do everything you can in your own means to cause WotC sales.

Quote from: Omega on March 24, 2023, 07:32:44 PM
Digging into the origins of the modern roleplaying hobby, it's fairly apparent that Gygax stole enormous amounts of material from Dave Arneson (the creator of Blackmoor) to launch TSR and "create" D&D.

Except that's not true whatsoever. The first-hand account I got was that Arneson shows up with these "notes" about how he ran his games but they were so sparse and useless that Gygax spent a ton of time fleshing them out. Yeah Arneson was running some sort of RPG, but he didn't write shit. So you have an idea man and a writer/developer. Both names go on D&D because that makes sense. Now Arneson does basically nothing for a couple years except get his royalties and Gygax creates an entire industry. And he still wants his name on the game, which is why it's on the Red Box and not AD&D, mostly because Gygax threw him a bone. Gygax didn't STEAL anything whatsoever. Arneson is 100% fully credited with Blackmoor.

Just typical baseless revisionist history to excoriate that evil white devil. How much longer until someone claims that Arneson had some Sioux Indian playing in his group and that was the TRUE creator? That'll give these retards boners, at least the ones that haven't lopped theirs off yet.

Quote from: Brad on March 27, 2023, 09:33:38 AM

Quote from: Omega on March 24, 2023, 07:32:44 PM
Digging into the origins of the modern roleplaying hobby, it's fairly apparent that Gygax stole enormous amounts of material from Dave Arneson (the creator of Blackmoor) to launch TSR and "create" D&D.

Except that's not true whatsoever. The first-hand account I got was that Arneson shows up with these "notes" about how he ran his games but they were so sparse and useless that Gygax spent a ton of time fleshing them out. Yeah Arneson was running some sort of RPG, but he didn't write shit. So you have an idea man and a writer/developer. Both names go on D&D because that makes sense. Now Arneson does basically nothing for a couple years except get his royalties and Gygax creates an entire industry. And he still wants his name on the game, which is why it's on the Red Box and not AD&D, mostly because Gygax threw him a bone. Gygax didn't STEAL anything whatsoever. Arneson is 100% fully credited with Blackmoor.

Just typical baseless revisionist history to excoriate that evil white devil. How much longer until someone claims that Arneson had some Sioux Indian playing in his group and that was the TRUE creator? That'll give these retards boners, at least the ones that haven't lopped theirs off yet.

The core idea for D&D was Arneson not Gygax.  Gygax could type so he was able to put out the volume of information needed to build the white box, meanwhile Arneson could not type.  The core classes, a lot of mechanics and monsters came from Arneson.  It is why Arneson won his case against TSR for when AD&D was released and got royalties.

The "nits make lice" and "slaughter converts after conversion" statements on dragonsfoot are disturbing. Since he cannot defend himself or publicly repent then that's not my problem. He's dead.

Unless he actually did something physically or economically reprehensible, then I don't care. Words are cheap.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on March 27, 2023, 10:13:05 AM
The "nits make lice" and "slaughter converts after conversion" statements on dragonsfoot are disturbing. Since he cannot defend himself or publicly repent then that's not my problem. He's dead.

Unless he actually did something physically or economically reprehensible, then I don't care. Words are cheap.

Gygax was a historical wargamer, those comments go inline with those games as common parlance.  So the leftards can suck their own anus when they complain about.  The same leftards are now censoring books wrote 100 years ago because they don't like what was said.  If they can't handle history then they can find a nice cliff and jump off it.

Quote from: honeydipperdavid on March 27, 2023, 09:55:11 AM
The core idea for D&D was Arneson not Gygax.  Gygax could type so he was able to put out the volume of information needed to build the white box, meanwhile Arneson could not type.  The core classes, a lot of mechanics and monsters came from Arneson.  It is why Arneson won his case against TSR for when AD&D was released and got royalties.

This doesn't refute a single thing I said.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on March 27, 2023, 10:13:05 AM
The "nits make lice" and "slaughter converts after conversion" statements on dragonsfoot are disturbing.

Why...I need an explanation. The first one is a direct historical quote, the second how things were actually done. Sorry if people are "disturbed" by fucking reality.

Quote from: Brad on March 27, 2023, 11:04:46 AM
This doesn't refute a single thing I said.

Replying to myself to make a point: it actually DOES refute what I said, and it's garbage. Is "typing" somehow irrelevant now? If someone shows up with a simple outline (if that) and tells you about this great idea they have, but you spend a ton of time writing it up and producing an actual product, does that mean you didn't do anything? Product development is like 99% of the actual work. I can have the most badass ideas ever, but until I make something tangible it might as well not even exist. This in no way downplays Arneson's contribution to the first release of D&D, but to make it sound like all Gygax did was "type up stuff" is ludicrous. He turned two pages of handwritten notes and a bunch of conversations into a fucking massive industry.

Quote from: Brad on March 27, 2023, 11:04:46 AM
Why...I need an explanation. The first one is a direct historical quote, the second how things were actually done. Sorry if people are "disturbed" by fucking reality.

    Is there any evidence for the 'slaughter converts after conversion' thing? Because I've heard it as a legend, and Gygax seems to have been using it as more of a thought experiment for 'here's what Lawful Good could be under certain circumstances'--again, Gygax's definitions of Good and Evil seem to have been heavy on divine command ethics. I don't know that it's ever been documented as "how things were actually done."

Quote from: Brad on March 27, 2023, 11:12:41 AM

Quote from: Brad on March 27, 2023, 11:04:46 AM
This doesn't refute a single thing I said.

Replying to myself to make a point: it actually DOES refute what I said, and it's garbage. Is "typing" somehow irrelevant now? If someone shows up with a simple outline (if that) and tells you about this great idea they have, but you spend a ton of time writing it up and producing an actual product, does that mean you didn't do anything? Product development is like 99% of the actual work. I can have the most badass ideas ever, but until I make something tangible it might as well not even exist. This in no way downplays Arneson's contribution to the first release of D&D, but to make it sound like all Gygax did was "type up stuff" is ludicrous. He turned two pages of handwritten notes and a bunch of conversations into a fucking massive industry.

Dude, a court of law stated Arneson was deserved royalties from AD&D.  You can open up the 3.5 DMG Core Ruelbook II and see Gary Gygax and Arneson credited as co-creators of the game.

This is the court case in which Gygax lost in the court of law and was required to pay Arneson royalties.  The US court system did not consider Arneson's complaint garbage and neither do I.  If you haven't read up on the history of D&D you might want to spend some time on it.  D&D is Arneson's game and Gygax came in after playing it and adopted Arneson's campaign and ideas to help create the white box.  When you look at Basic D&D much of that is what Arneson was playing.  Gygax could type and helped organize and create some of the content himself.  But no, D&D was not exclusively Gygax's own work, everyone knows that.  You could list much of AD&D's non- basic content as Gygax's because Arneson didn't create that portion however the core concept was Arneson's not Gygax's.

https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/FSupp/473/759/2148159/

Quote from: Armchair Gamer on March 27, 2023, 11:45:17 AM

Quote from: Brad on March 27, 2023, 11:04:46 AM
Why...I need an explanation. The first one is a direct historical quote, the second how things were actually done. Sorry if people are "disturbed" by fucking reality.

    Is there any evidence for the 'slaughter converts after conversion' thing? Because I've heard it as a legend, and Gygax seems to have been using it as more of a thought experiment for 'here's what Lawful Good could be under certain circumstances'--again, Gygax's definitions of Good and Evil seem to have been heavy on divine command ethics. I don't know that it's ever been documented as "how things were actually done."

It's a great big fat nothing burger with leftard sauce on tope.  You can read it here.  Gygax uses that phrase in place of genocide.  The leftards bitching about it are the same leftards who bitch about how capitalism caused them to have piles and why its unfair they can't live in mansions and do no work.  They are idiots who should be made fun of.

https://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=11762&start=77

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on March 27, 2023, 10:13:05 AM
The "nits make lice" and "slaughter converts after conversion" statements on dragonsfoot are disturbing.

I don't find them disturbing at all.  So I wouldn't say the are objectively disturbing- Gygax obviously didn't think so either.  Certainly, some might be disturbed by them, but to make that as an objective statement?  I strongly disagree.

Quote from: Venka on March 27, 2023, 12:48:44 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on March 27, 2023, 10:13:05 AM
The "nits make lice" and "slaughter converts after conversion" statements on dragonsfoot are disturbing.

I don't find them disturbing at all.  So I wouldn't say the are objectively disturbing- Gygax obviously didn't think so either.  Certainly, some might be disturbed by them, but to make that as an objective statement?  I strongly disagree.

It's much ado about nothing.  He used the nits phrase in place of genocide, thats all.

Quote from: honeydipperdavid on March 27, 2023, 12:35:03 PM
https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/FSupp/473/759/2148159/

So what? The court thought Arneson deserved royalties because he came up with most of the original concept? I never disputed that whatsoever, I SPECIFICALLY STATED Gygax was the one who developed that concept into an industry. This would be like if some dude originally drew Mickey Mouse on a napkin then Disney turned him into a cartoon and trillion dollar company, but you want to insist they did the same amount of work because, you know, reasons. Yeah, original dude might get some royalties, but so what? Royalties in no way imply the amount of work put into a product. Take a look at the record industry...musicians showing up at a label with pretty much everything done and some "producer" gets massive royalties because he flipped a switch and turned on the microphones. There are a lot more Colonel Parkers than Phil Spectors...to extend the music analogy, Arneson shows up to the studio with the idea of a concept album, Gygax played all the instruments, recorded it, produced the albums, and setup distribution and sales. You're gonna probably get royalties from the court in that instance, but the reality is you didn't "design" shit.

Quote from: Brad on March 27, 2023, 01:09:47 PM

Quote from: honeydipperdavid on March 27, 2023, 12:35:03 PM
https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/FSupp/473/759/2148159/

So what? The court thought Arneson deserved royalties because he came up with most of the original concept? I never disputed that whatsoever, I SPECIFICALLY STATED Gygax was the one who developed that concept into an industry. This would be like if some dude originally drew Mickey Mouse on a napkin then Disney turned him into a cartoon and trillion dollar company, but you want to insist they did the same amount of work because, you know, reasons. Yeah, original dude might get some royalties, but so what? Royalties in no way imply the amount of work put into a product. Take a look at the record industry...musicians showing up at a label with pretty much everything done and some "producer" gets massive royalties because he flipped a switch and turned on the microphones. There are a lot more Colonel Parkers than Phil Spectors...to extend the music analogy, Arneson shows up to the studio with the idea of a concept album, Gygax played all the instruments, recorded it, produced the albums, and setup distribution and sales. You're gonna probably get royalties from the court in that instance, but the reality is you didn't "design" shit.

To each their own, I'll go with the court case and TSR and WOTC take that lists Arneson and Gygax as co-creators of D&D and you can do whatever you want to do.

Quote from: honeydipperdavid on March 27, 2023, 01:13:19 PM
To each their own, I'll go with the court case and TSR and WOTC take that lists Arneson and Gygax as co-creators of D&D and you can do whatever you want to do.

You're totally missing the point...