I'm slowly inching towards getting into GURPS 4E and one thing I am curious about is, can I more or less do everything with the two Core books (Characters and Campaigns) in the same way HERO 6E allows me to do everything with just it's core books.

That is are all the building blocks are in the 2 core books and the supplement books are just pre-built powers, gear, spells etc. Basically time saver books. Maybe a better way to ask my question is are the 2 core books a Tool-kit in the way HERO 6E's core books are a tool-kit, or, if I want to get the full meal deal will I need to pick up The Tech books, the Powers book, the Magic book and so on.

Quote from: Gwarh;989659I'm slowly inching towards getting into GURPS 4E and one thing I am curious about is, can I more or less do everything with the two Core books (Characters and Campaigns) in the same way HERO 6E allows me to do everything with just it's core books.

That is are all the building blocks are in the 2 core books and the supplement books are just pre-built powers, gear, spells etc. Basically time saver books. Maybe a better way to ask my question is are the 2 core books a Tool-kit in the way HERO 6E's core books are a tool-kit, or, if I want to get the full meal deal will I need to pick up The Tech books, the Powers book, the Magic book and so on.

Yes and no,

Yes
GURPS 4e Advantages, Disadvantages, Enhancements, and Limitation work more or less like they do in Hero. You buy the base and modify it with enhancements and limitation to get exactly what you want.

No
The thing to remember that GURPS is far more skill based than Hero. Partially due to the legacy and partly because it just how SJ Games does design, GURPS has numerous self-contained sub systems. For example GURPS has both GURPS Magic, GURPS Ritual Path Magic, and the GURPS Thaumatology gives you a huge amount of design options. GURPS Martials Arts vastly expands the number of techniques for combat skills.

The several hundred spells in GURPS Magic are a real time saver but it is a specific take on magic. So going with the core books only may be the better way of implementing how you view magic ought to work.

In a nutshell
Is any of this needed beyond the core book? Not really which is a marked difference from the first three editions. But it is a toolkit so be prepared to spend some time doing rules prep to make the exact campaign you want to run.

Now if your goal is to run a fantasy campaign similar to what a lot of people run with D&D then GURPS Dungeon Fantasy is the better to way to go at first. Overall it sits where Mythras/Runequest 6e sits as far as what it contains and how adaptable it is to different types of fantasy campaigns.

YES....

You Can 'do it all' with just the two main books - and maybe a pdf of the character sheet handy.

Keep in mind that as GM you still have to write up a lot of stuff on your own.

- Ed C.

I think for a lot of gamers all you need is the core rulebooks, at least at the start. If you hit the wall I'd look at supplements to expand the game as you go.

Arguably Powers is the third core book. Certainly it contains a small number of advantages that aren't in the Core books (Create, Control, Leech, Neutralise and Static) which you might want.

It's really marginal, though. You can do a huge amount with the two core books.

Quote from: estar;989667Yes and no,

Yes
GURPS 4e Advantages, Disadvantages, Enhancements, and Limitation work more or less like they do in Hero. You buy the base and modify it with enhancements and limitation to get exactly what you want.

No
The thing to remember that GURPS is far more skill based than Hero. Partially due to the legacy and partly because it just how SJ Games does design, GURPS has numerous self-contained sub systems. For example GURPS has both GURPS Magic, GURPS Ritual Path Magic, and the GURPS Thaumatology gives you a huge amount of design options. GURPS Martials Arts vastly expands the number of techniques for combat skills.

The several hundred spells in GURPS Magic are a real time saver but it is a specific take on magic. So going with the core books only may be the better way of implementing how you view magic ought to work.

In a nutshell
Is any of this needed beyond the core book? Not really which is a marked difference from the first three editions. But it is a toolkit so be prepared to spend some time doing rules prep to make the exact campaign you want to run.

Now if your goal is to run a fantasy campaign similar to what a lot of people run with D&D then GURPS Dungeon Fantasy is the better to way to go at first. Overall it sits where Mythras/Runequest 6e sits as far as what it contains and how adaptable it is to different types of fantasy campaigns.

Thanks estar, Koltar & Ulairi for the feedback. I'm happy to hear it's a "Tool-kit" system at it's core. I backed the "Dungeon Fantasy" kickstarter which is about to, or is actually shipping now so that will be my first exposure to the system.

It's one of those games that I can't believe I never got into as it's been around for ages. Well I guess I do know why, for a long while when I was younger I felt like playing GURPS was cheating on HERO lol. Also I felt GURPS was ripping off HERO rather than an homage and twist on HERO.

For me, having no setting premise means having no context to game in. I generally don't like generic rules for this reason, and prefer discrete games that fully mesh system and setting. GURPS core is complete, in the sense of having all the rules necessary but not 'complete' in as much as it doesn't set the parameters of what you should do with them. If that makes any sense....

Quote from: TrippyHippy;989689For me, having no setting premise means having no context to game in. I generally don't like generic rules for this reason, and prefer discrete games that fully mesh system and setting. GURPS core is complete, in the sense of having all the rules necessary but not 'complete' in as much as it doesn't set the parameters of what you should do with them. If that makes any sense....

That makes sense.

I'm not adverse to getting the source books, in fact that is GURPS greatest strength it seems, all the source/inspiration material. I just have a thing for game systems/engines so I like the idea of one that can do it all in the core books.

Generic do it all systems can be a bit bland at times as well so there is always that danger. But I'm a big HERO fan and I've always heard that GURPS and HERO are like kissing cousins so I think I'll be happy with GURPS once I get started with it.

I'm a bit obsessed with the Grail Quest for the "perfect" RPG engine that can do it all. I know it's silly and I'll never find it, but I can't help myself and keep searching. (HERO, GURPS, Savage Worlds, Cortex engine, Cypher engine, d20, AGE engine, Basic RPG, on and on the search goes)

Quote from: Gwarh;989686Thanks estar, Koltar & Ulairi for the feedback. I'm happy to hear it's a "Tool-kit" system at it's core. I backed the "Dungeon Fantasy" kickstarter which is about to, or is actually shipping now so that will be my first exposure to the system.

I backed at the $250 level and so got the PDFs. You will be in good hands with the boxed set. The only issue is the number of "stuff" one deals with because of the 250 pt templates and it is a minor one at that.

Quote from: Gwarh;989686It's one of those games that I can't believe I got into as it's been around for ages. Well I guess I do know why, for a long while when I was younger I felt like playing GURPS was cheating on HERO lol. Also I felt GURPS was ripping off HERO rather than an homage and twist on HERO.

Even I made the switch to GURPS I still used Champions for super hero campaign. GURPS is just not my goto for that genre.

I don't know if you can do it all , but surely you can do twice as much as I did with 3rd edition GURPS since it's at least twice as long , right?

No, not really, but you can do an awful lot.

You'll find you need Powers or Magic.  Magic's not as bad as some people say but it does a pretty specific variety of magic that works best at a lower points range.  It doesn't balance out with the rest of the points system.  A 500 point mage is terrifying but also not particularly effective against tanks and the like, though "Throw Spell" and "Shape Metal" certainly can be.  Thaumatology is a big book of magic systems and alternatives, I've never really used it, interesting I suppose but GURPS Magic does most of what I want.

Ultra Tech and High Tech are very useful in sf games and Space Ships is essential to many.  Be sure to gather the half dozen or so articles scattered through various Pyramid issues that let you use Space Ships to simulate other kinds of vehicles.  GURPS really needs a new GURPS Vehicles even if it's reduced to a listing of a wide range of vehicle stats.

Low Tech and Martial Arts are pretty awesome.  If you want more realistic weapons and armor and fighting styles you'll want them. I will suggest renaming the skills "Karate" and "Judo" "Striking" and "Sweeps" go through the book and tape a little bit of paper over every instance and you'll save yourself almost infinite frustration and confusion.

Supers is a mixed blessing or horribly botched (if you ask me) and I'd skip it and just muddle by or use HERO.

If you want fantasy races and templates you'll want Banestorm but you can certainly build your own.

Just about everything was out of print for a few years there but now it's mostly available in print on demand.

Quote from: Gwarh;989686It's one of those games that I can't believe I got into as it's been around for ages. Well I guess I do know why, for a long while when I was younger I felt like playing GURPS was cheating on HERO lol. Also I felt GURPS was ripping off HERO rather than an homage and twist on HERO.

I'm playing in a GURPS fantasy game that started out as a Castles & Crusades game using Dungeon Crawl Classics modules. So far, it's just been the two core books and nothing else and it's been great. In fact, better than great. I'm freaking loving it and I didn't expect to.

I'm also in the early stages of running a HERO fantasy campaign, just now getting my feet wet. I can totally see the appeal.

Quote from: Eisenmann;989952I'm playing in a GURPS fantasy game that started out as a Castles & Crusades game using Dungeon Crawl Classics modules. So far, it's just been the two core books and nothing else and it's been great. In fact, better than great. I'm freaking loving it and I didn't expect to.

I'm also in the early stages of running a HERO fantasy campaign, just now getting my feet wet. I can totally see the appeal.

I like both. While GURPS has tons of options but for the most part once you zero in on one the specifics are short, to the point, and makes sense in light of reality or the genre.

And the Hero System powers system is just plain elegant in what it can handle.

Quote from: David Johansen;989858Supers is a mixed blessing or horribly botched (if you ask me) and I'd skip it and just muddle by or use HERO.

When you said "Supers" you mean this correct, vs. the "Powers" book correct?

I only as as it would be a real shame of the Powers buck was crap as Powers are a HUUUUGE part of the game I'd think.