Quote from: BedrockBrendan;888664...dropping a potentially fun game because of the author's decisions around pronouns seems like a poor reason (whether it is because they used He exclusively or alternated, or used She, or they). It is kind of like dropping a book for using (or not using) the oxford comma.

I agree. Even though the Oxford comma is the only logical choice, I can easily ignore the minor irritation of people who make the illogical (though grammatically acceptable) choice to forgo the comma before the "and" in a list.

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;888664I started switching it up and alternating between He and She because it 'he' feels less generic and neutral to me now (so by switching I just feel like I am speaking to both men and women when I write).

Personally, I like rules that include examples of play. And in that case, I prefer examples that include both male and female players using the appropriate pronouns. Chaosium had this method down by 1979-1981.

Quote from: Baulderstone;888735*Seriously, seeing people still ranting about this reminds of the old cliche Japanese soldier left on island that thinks the war is still going on decades later.

While it is a bit cliche due to TV shows like Gilligan's Island, it is also a real thing. The last documented instance of such a survivor was 1974.

Quote from: AsenRG;889368I agree with your points about the artist, but can you spoilertag those, please? You know, the square icon next to the one that says "php"?

OH!  I never saw that, my bad.  I apologize for that.

On topic, I agree with those who say that GUMSHOE tries to solve a problem that doesn't exist.  It's why they lost me.

Quote from: Rincewind1;888654Yes, really. If your reason for flushing a book down is "ZOMG THEY USE SHE INSTEAD OF HE THE PRETENTIOUS PROGRESSIVES", you are just as retarded as SJWs.

You're right, but there's so much baggage with things like this now.  When I see somebody leaning heavy on the 'she' as a generic pronoun, there's a voice inside me that says "Oh, it's THESE assholes again". It's not something I'd toss a book in the trash over, but it gets me about halfway there.  Once upon a time, I would have thought nothing of it as well.

Quote from: Agkistro;889481You're right, but there's so much baggage with things like this now.  When I see somebody leaning heavy on the 'she' as a generic pronoun, there's a voice inside me that says "Oh, it's THESE assholes again". It's not something I'd toss a book in the trash over, but it gets me about halfway there.  Once upon a time, I would have thought nothing of it as well.

This is my view too. Its pretentious and not the best of rules writing styles. But not something to dismiss the book over. Far as I can tell Gumeshoe does not crank it up to offensive levels. It is just... there. An affectation. Passively pretentious.

Seen so much worse than that. Oh so much worse.

But I can definitly see someone using that as a simple guage to pass on a purchase. There is only so much cash to spread around and so much time to devote to learning a new system. A simple "this doesnt feel right. I'll pass" is as good a reason as "The cover art turns me off. I'll pass."

Quote from: jhkim;888370The telling point with skill point spending that turned me off was this:  A character has a loaded gun, but their best choice is to club an enemy with it because they are out of Firearms points, but still have Weapons points for boosting. This happened several times, and seemed utterly nonsensical.

This issue has really been bugging me. I can normally figure out elegant personal solutions to such things, but I'm a bit stumped here. I wonder how the designers get around this.

Quote from: Shipyard Locked;889521This issue has really been bugging me. I can normally figure out elegant personal solutions to such things, but I'm a bit stumped here. I wonder how the designers get around this.

No more bullets?

"He would have finished him off then and there, but pity stayed his hand. It's a pity I've run out of bullets."

Quote from: Bren;889526No more bullets?

"He would have finished him off then and there, but pity stayed his hand. It's a pity I've run out of bullets."

That's a good one, but it's kinda one-time-only, and it doesn't address the larger issue of being out of relevant points and coming up with absurd justifications just to use another set of points.

Quote from: Shipyard Locked;889535That's a good one, but it's kinda one-time-only, and it doesn't address the larger issue of being out of relevant points and coming up with absurd justifications just to use another set of points.

You could also look to the old George Reeves Superman TV shows. Superman doesn't flinch from bullets, but throw the gun at him and he ducks.

Quote from: AaronBrown99;888733It's a reasonable question, and I said as much on page 3 of the thread, in response to FVB's "bathwater" comment.

I just find it particularly grating and jarring when I'm reading something and I have to "autocorrect" an incorrect pronoun (or it's <--> its, et. al.) it in my head and then keep going.

Maybe that's why I give FFG a pass on the fiddly bits in WFRP 3rd ed, and on Star Wars: Edge--their writing is correct!

A couple questions, because I am seriously amused that this is an issue for anyone, at all.

First: in the second sentence above you suggest it's a sort of OCD issue for you. I know how this feels (certain needlessly elaborate fonts trigger a "printing glitch" feeling in my mind and stop my ability to read the text cold). Do you think it's more along this line than the idea that the feminine pronoun is in use? That is....if a standardization came to accept feminine or mixed gender pronouns (on rotation) as correct form, then the issue would go away for you?

Second: do my choppy, flow-of-thought-grammar-be-damned sentences also trigger a problem for you?

I'm thinking maybe this is the real issue here...and use of a specific gender pronoun is not the actual issue?

Quote from: Omega;889517This is my view too. Its pretentious and not the best of rules writing styles. But not something to dismiss the book over. Far as I can tell Gumeshoe does not crank it up to offensive levels. It is just... there. An affectation. Passively pretentious.

Seen so much worse than that. Oh so much worse.

But I can definitly see someone using that as a simple guage to pass on a purchase. There is only so much cash to spread around and so much time to devote to learning a new system. A simple "this doesnt feel right. I'll pass" is as good a reason as "The cover art turns me off. I'll pass."

I can only see one case where use of feminine pronouns would give me a reason not to purchase a book: if the pronoun was in use in cases where it was painfully in appropriate. EX: "George Morrison was investigating the crime scene, when she noticed that there was a bloodstain in the north corner." In such a case that is willful subversion of the language in a manner that I would consider weird/inappropriate/pretentious/agenda-driven (or just stupid, whichever). (unless the text clearly identified that George was actually a woman, I suppose....but the idea of the example is one where its an identifiably male figure, except in pronoun use).

You have to dig pretty deep into some strange territory online to find cases like the above. I'd consider "cis" terminology to be an example of such agenda-driven subversion in action, too.

To me. More importantly is the theme or subject interesting?

I've slogged through ten times worse affectations or and outright pretentiousness with Fantasy Wargaming and 4e D&D GW and my main irk was that for all that attitude. They failed to deliver.

Gumshoe delivers what it says it will. A very different system for resolving clues.

a thousand times Nay.