Quote from: yosemitemike on May 20, 2024, 07:23:55 AMI can't say that I ever particularly cared about Greyhawk or found it's flavor of kitchen sink D&D fantasy to be all that different from Forgotten Realms at the table.

I have the World of Greyhawk box and it is not even a tenth as fantasy kitchen sink as Forgotten Realms. It has a defined structure and theme where FR totally lacks any such thing. Mystara is closer to FR in that respect.

Quote from: Omega on May 20, 2024, 02:39:31 PM

Quote from: yosemitemike on May 20, 2024, 07:23:55 AMI can't say that I ever particularly cared about Greyhawk or found it's flavor of kitchen sink D&D fantasy to be all that different from Forgotten Realms at the table.

I have the World of Greyhawk box and it is not even a tenth as fantasy kitchen sink as Forgotten Realms. It has a defined structure and theme where FR totally lacks any such thing. Mystara is closer to FR in that respect.

Maybe so, but the new version will be specifically written to include every "D&D"ism in the core books.

In the end it will be just another kitchen sink 5e setting with a "Greyhawk" veneer.

Personally I can care less, because in my opinion even the original Greyhawk and Forgotten Realms are bad examples of fantasy worldbuilding.

But for those that do care, there is no reason to hope that wotc won't turn your setting into a skinsuit of itself like they have done for everything else that they have "updated"...

Quote from: Man at Arms on May 19, 2024, 02:46:17 PMIs it possible; that WOTC will try to turn Greyhawk, into Gayhawk?

It's not just possible.

The sodomites in charge of D&D are on the record specifically stating that is exactly what they will do with everything D&D going forward:

QuoteJeremy Crawford on the future of D&D:
https://kotaku.com/dungeons-dragons-promises-to-make-the-game-more-queer-1798401117

In the Dungeons & Dragons adventure Storm King's Thunder, which Crawford helped publish in 2016, three enormous rocks have crushed the Osstra family's farm in the abandoned village of Nightstone, spurring them to flee the town. ... If players choose to rescue Nightstone's villagers, they'll meet the 52-year-old wheat farmer Thelbin Osstra, his husband Brynn, and Brynn's adopted nephew Broland.
"That was a nod specifically to our household," Crawford said of himself, his husband, and his nephew, who lived with them in 2016 when Storm King's Thunder was in development.

Crawford told me that publisher Wizards of the Coast is making D&D more gay, and why that's a great thing.

"Ever since we brought our adventure design fully back in-house," he said, "all of our new adventures contain LGBT characters. This is true of our next adventure, Tomb of Annihilation, and it will be true of our stories after that."

"It's important to many of us personally in the company for the game to acknowledge our existence," Crawford said of publisher Wizards of the Coast,

Chris Perkins backs him up:
https://www.kotaku.com.au/2020/06/inside-dungeons-dragons-chilling-new-adventure-rime-of-the-frostmaiden/
"..."As people have grown accustomed to seeing in our books, you're going to get to see the art people of all sorts from many different backgrounds," Crawford, himself not just an openly gay man, but a champion for diversity and LGBTQ representation at Wizards, concluded. "And then also in the story, you're going to get to meet people and help people who reflect the wonderful diversity of people in our world."
"One example I love that Chris put in and he basically it was a pleasant, pleasant surprise when I came through [Frostmaiden], is you get to help a scrimshander [someone, typically a sailor, who whittles handicrafts using materials gathered on their voyages] and his husband for one of those as standalone quests," Crawford said. "We now consider this to be a core, non-optional part of our work. And I love that, basically, if you come to one of our adventures, you're going to see a wonderful spectrum of humanity represented there."

It is hardly a "woke narrative" when they openly admit to a what they are doing.

There is no reason not to take the people at wotc at their word.

We've got the receipts.

Quote from: Jaeger on May 20, 2024, 06:32:31 PM

Quote from: Omega on May 20, 2024, 02:39:31 PM

Quote from: yosemitemike on May 20, 2024, 07:23:55 AMI can't say that I ever particularly cared about Greyhawk or found it's flavor of kitchen sink D&D fantasy to be all that different from Forgotten Realms at the table.

I have the World of Greyhawk box and it is not even a tenth as fantasy kitchen sink as Forgotten Realms. It has a defined structure and theme where FR totally lacks any such thing. Mystara is closer to FR in that respect.

Maybe so, but the new version will be specifically written to include every "D&D"ism in the core books.

In the end it will be just another kitchen sink 5e setting with a "Greyhawk" veneer.

Personally I can care less, because in my opinion even the original Greyhawk and Forgotten Realms are bad examples of fantasy worldbuilding.

But for those that do care, there is no reason to hope that wotc won't turn your setting into a skinsuit of itself like they have done for everything else that they have "updated"...

Quote from: Man at Arms on May 19, 2024, 02:46:17 PMIs it possible; that WOTC will try to turn Greyhawk, into Gayhawk?

It's not just possible.

The sodomites in charge of D&D are on the record specifically stating that is exactly what they will do with everything D&D going forward:

QuoteJeremy Crawford on the future of D&D:
https://kotaku.com/dungeons-dragons-promises-to-make-the-game-more-queer-1798401117

In the Dungeons & Dragons adventure Storm King's Thunder, which Crawford helped publish in 2016, three enormous rocks have crushed the Osstra family's farm in the abandoned village of Nightstone, spurring them to flee the town. ... If players choose to rescue Nightstone's villagers, they'll meet the 52-year-old wheat farmer Thelbin Osstra, his husband Brynn, and Brynn's adopted nephew Broland.
"That was a nod specifically to our household," Crawford said of himself, his husband, and his nephew, who lived with them in 2016 when Storm King's Thunder was in development.

Crawford told me that publisher Wizards of the Coast is making D&D more gay, and why that's a great thing.

"Ever since we brought our adventure design fully back in-house," he said, "all of our new adventures contain LGBT characters. This is true of our next adventure, Tomb of Annihilation, and it will be true of our stories after that."

"It's important to many of us personally in the company for the game to acknowledge our existence," Crawford said of publisher Wizards of the Coast,

Chris Perkins backs him up:
https://www.kotaku.com.au/2020/06/inside-dungeons-dragons-chilling-new-adventure-rime-of-the-frostmaiden/
"..."As people have grown accustomed to seeing in our books, you're going to get to see the art people of all sorts from many different backgrounds," Crawford, himself not just an openly gay man, but a champion for diversity and LGBTQ representation at Wizards, concluded. "And then also in the story, you're going to get to meet people and help people who reflect the wonderful diversity of people in our world."
"One example I love that Chris put in and he basically it was a pleasant, pleasant surprise when I came through [Frostmaiden], is you get to help a scrimshander [someone, typically a sailor, who whittles handicrafts using materials gathered on their voyages] and his husband for one of those as standalone quests," Crawford said. "We now consider this to be a core, non-optional part of our work. And I love that, basically, if you come to one of our adventures, you're going to see a wonderful spectrum of humanity represented there."

It is hardly a "woke narrative" when they openly admit to a what they are doing.

There is no reason not to take the people at wotc at their word.

We've got the receipts.

The presence of explicitly gay characters in a D&D setting does not make it "Not D&D" in any appreciable way. How does having them in there hurt the product?

Quote from: HappyDaze on May 20, 2024, 06:37:00 PMThe presence of explicitly gay characters in a D&D setting does not make it "Not D&D" in any appreciable way. How does having them in there hurt the product?

Because it's disgusting.

Why would anyone want disgusting content in their rpg?

The people at wotc hate everyone that does not like the continual insertion of disgusting gay content in rpg's.

And I won't give money to people that hate me.

Quote from: Jaeger on May 20, 2024, 07:28:37 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on May 20, 2024, 06:37:00 PMThe presence of explicitly gay characters in a D&D setting does not make it "Not D&D" in any appreciable way. How does having them in there hurt the product?

Because it is disgusting.

Why would anyone want disgusting content in their rpg?

The people at wotc hate everyone that does not like the continual insertion of disgusting gay content in rpg's.

And I won't give money to people that hate me.

Do you feel this way about representation of other peoples, or just of gay people?

And you saying that they hate you doesn't make it so, they more likely just find your homophobia abhorrent.

As for not giving them your money, that's your choice. Ultimately, they probably are not worried about losing you as a customer.

Quote from: HappyDaze on May 20, 2024, 07:34:02 PMDo you feel this way about representation of other peoples, or just of gay people?

DEI, ESG, and any other type of woke "representation", inclusion and diversity is also fake and gay.

But if you like all your RPG settings to look like a combination of Downtown L.A., and an SF pride parade; You do you.

Quote from: HappyDaze on May 20, 2024, 07:34:02 PMAnd you saying that they hate you doesn't make it so, they more likely just find your homophobia abhorrent.

Disgust is not fear.

Calling someone a "homophobe" is just an attempt at rhetorically framing normal people that still have a disgust reflex into "bad guys".   


And yes, they hate me.

The pro-sodomy groomer brigade is very open about their feelings towards those that don't agree with them.

Quote from: HappyDaze on May 20, 2024, 07:34:02 PMAs for not giving them your money, that's your choice. Ultimately, they probably are not worried about losing you as a customer.

Quote from: Jaeger on May 20, 2024, 07:28:37 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on May 20, 2024, 06:37:00 PMThe presence of explicitly gay characters in a D&D setting does not make it "Not D&D" in any appreciable way. How does having them in there hurt the product?

Because it's disgusting.

Why would anyone want disgusting content in their rpg?

The people at wotc hate everyone that does not like the continual insertion of disgusting gay content in rpg's.

And I won't give money to people that hate me.

Tell it!!!

Quote from: Jaeger on May 20, 2024, 08:00:44 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on May 20, 2024, 07:34:02 PMDo you feel this way about representation of other peoples, or just of gay people?

DEI, ESG, and any other type of woke "representation", inclusion and diversity is also fake and gay.

But if you like all your RPG settings to look like a combination of Downtown L.A., and an SF pride parade; You do you.

Quote from: HappyDaze on May 20, 2024, 07:34:02 PMAnd you saying that they hate you doesn't make it so, they more likely just find your homophobia abhorrent.

Disgust is not fear.

Calling someone a "homophobe" is just an attempt at rhetorically framing normal people that still have a disgust reflex into "bad guys".   


And yes, they hate me.

The pro-sodomy groomer brigade is very open about their feelings towards those that don't agree with them.

Quote from: HappyDaze on May 20, 2024, 07:34:02 PMAs for not giving them your money, that's your choice. Ultimately, they probably are not worried about losing you as a customer.

Having a married gay couple does not make a setting "look like a combination of Downtown L.A., and an SF pride parade" unless you already have a very warped view of reality.

Disgust is not fear, but there are close associations in how the brain processes the two. However, that's a moot point because the common use of the term homophobia is not specifically tied to fear, but to a range of prejudicial behaviors against homosexuals. And yes, by your own words, you appear quite homophobic to me. Beyond that, you seem to be the one with a fixation on beig hateful.

Quote from: HappyDaze on May 20, 2024, 09:54:05 PMHaving a married gay couple does not make a setting "look like a combination of Downtown L.A., and an SF pride parade" unless you already have a very warped view of reality.

Disgust is not fear, but there are close associations in how the brain processes the two. However, that's a moot point because the common use of the term homophobia is not specifically tied to fear, but to a range of prejudicial behaviors against homosexuals. And yes, by your own words, you appear quite homophobic to me. Beyond that, you seem to be the one with a fixation on beig hateful.

Out of curiosity, is there any objection to a married gay couple in a D&D module that you would accept as not being homophobic and/or "hateful"?

Quote from: ForgottenF on May 20, 2024, 10:53:11 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on May 20, 2024, 09:54:05 PMHaving a married gay couple does not make a setting "look like a combination of Downtown L.A., and an SF pride parade" unless you already have a very warped view of reality.

Disgust is not fear, but there are close associations in how the brain processes the two. However, that's a moot point because the common use of the term homophobia is not specifically tied to fear, but to a range of prejudicial behaviors against homosexuals. And yes, by your own words, you appear quite homophobic to me. Beyond that, you seem to be the one with a fixation on beig hateful.

Out of curiosity, is there any objection to a married gay couple in a D&D module that you would accept as not being homophobic and/or "hateful"?

Probably not, but what's your hypothetical objection? I'm willing to discuss it.

Quote from: Jaeger on May 20, 2024, 07:28:37 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on May 20, 2024, 06:37:00 PMThe presence of explicitly gay characters in a D&D setting does not make it "Not D&D" in any appreciable way. How does having them in there hurt the product?

Because it's disgusting.

Why would anyone want disgusting content in their rpg?

The people at wotc hate everyone that does not like the continual insertion of disgusting gay content in rpg's.

And I won't give money to people that hate me.

Greetings!

Yes, my friend, you are quite right. It is very disgusting. Corrupt, filthy degeneracy should not be promoted or celebrated, but steadfastly and ruthlessly condemned.

WOTC and sodomites like Crawford are continually committed to and seeking to normalize their corrupt degeneracy through what they include in the game books, and how they go about framing it. WOTC and degenerates should be opposed and criticized everywhere, tirelessly. Let the degenerates burn! The groomers are coming out everywhere in society, seeking to promote their disgusting, degenerate ways.

And, of course, we can see the reprobate jello-brained helpers that eagerly seek to provide support for the degenerates.

WOTC will obviously fill Greyhawk with corruption and degeneracy. Crawford has as much explicitly said so. That is what WOTC does now. That is who WOTC is.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: SHARK on May 20, 2024, 11:07:11 PM

Quote from: Jaeger on May 20, 2024, 07:28:37 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on May 20, 2024, 06:37:00 PMThe presence of explicitly gay characters in a D&D setting does not make it "Not D&D" in any appreciable way. How does having them in there hurt the product?

Because it's disgusting.

Why would anyone want disgusting content in their rpg?

The people at wotc hate everyone that does not like the continual insertion of disgusting gay content in rpg's.

And I won't give money to people that hate me.

Greetings!

Yes, my friend, you are quite right. It is very disgusting. Corrupt, filthy degeneracy should not be promoted or celebrated, but steadfastly and ruthlessly condemned.

WOTC and sodomites like Crawford are continually committed to and seeking to normalize their corrupt degeneracy through what they include in the game books, and how they go about framing it. WOTC and degenerates should be opposed and criticized everywhere, tirelessly. Let the degenerates burn! The groomers are coming out everywhere in society, seeking to promote their disgusting, degenerate ways.

And, of course, we can see the reprobate jello-brained helpers that eagerly seek to provide support for the degenerates.

WOTC will obviously fill Greyhawk with corruption and degeneracy. Crawford has as much explicitly said so. That is what WOTC does now. That is who WOTC is.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

SHARK again shows his lack of Christian values and failed committment to protect the rights of all Americans regardless of whether they are different from him.

Gay people that make games want to put gay characters into their products of their make-believe game worlds. Somehow, internet tough guys everywhere are threatened and have to buck up to protect...somebody...from this great evil.

Quote from: Jaeger on May 20, 2024, 06:32:31 PMMaybe so, but the new version will be specifically written to include every "D&D"ism in the core books.

"Ever since we brought our adventure design fully back in-house," he said, "all of our new adventures contain LGBT characters. This is true of our next adventure, Tomb of Annihilation, and it will be true of our stories after that."

1: They already tried that and mostly failed with Ghosts of Saltmash. The 5e Greyhawk module.
 
2: Except that it was so feeble and meaningless. Its a throwaway sentence in a single paragraph that you can easily miss.

Quote from: HappyDaze on May 20, 2024, 06:37:00 PMThe presence of explicitly gay characters in a D&D setting does not make it "Not D&D" in any appreciable way. How does having them in there hurt the product?

It is not the presence that is the problem. Its the agenda behind it being there.

Same with minorities and combat wheelchairs. No one would give a flying fuck if it was being done for anything other than the woke agenda.

Quote from: HappyDaze on May 20, 2024, 10:59:33 PM

Quote from: ForgottenF on May 20, 2024, 10:53:11 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on May 20, 2024, 09:54:05 PMHaving a married gay couple does not make a setting "look like a combination of Downtown L.A., and an SF pride parade" unless you already have a very warped view of reality.

Disgust is not fear, but there are close associations in how the brain processes the two. However, that's a moot point because the common use of the term homophobia is not specifically tied to fear, but to a range of prejudicial behaviors against homosexuals. And yes, by your own words, you appear quite homophobic to me. Beyond that, you seem to be the one with a fixation on beig hateful.

Out of curiosity, is there any objection to a married gay couple in a D&D module that you would accept as not being homophobic and/or "hateful"?

Probably not, but what's your hypothetical objection? I'm willing to discuss it.

I object when it is just there to check a box on a score card. Its fucking demeaning.

I object when it is there to push a false agenda. Also demeaning.

I object when it is just a meaningless insertion.

I object when it is a ham-handed insertion.

If you think any of that makes me a homophobe then maybe you need to look in a mirror.