By itself, this thread wouldn't have raised many eyebrows I don't think, it was more about Pungency in general plus that Breitbart thread exploding into full-blown Eugenics Theory and then pops in a new guy "Hi guys how about that Myfarog?"

Quote from: CRKrueger;939622By itself, this thread wouldn't have raised many eyebrows I don't think, it was more about Pungency in general plus that Breitbart thread exploding into full-blown Eugenics Theory and then pops in a new guy "Hi guys how about that Myfarog?"

Breitbart (snort). If anything exemplifies our world of "assume a stance, find shit to back it up," that shitpile does.

The biggest mistake we ever made was letting the average internet user become the evaluator of their own news. The journalism class used to be trained to do this sort of thing, to include arguing the various viewpoints with some semblance of expertise. The fairness doctrine MADE media outlets provide equal time for opposing views. Now they're just all thrown out there, with no one thinking about, chewing over, or digesting the stew. It's just a bunch of monkeys tossing fudge cakes back and forth, led by folks like the kind people at Breitbart (aka "Bitchhard").

(P.S. Is "Pungency" a ref to "Tangency?")

Quote from: cranebump;939625Breitbart (snort). If anything exemplifies our world of "assume a stance, find shit to back it up," that shitpile does.

The biggest mistake we ever made was letting the average internet user become the evaluator of their own news. The journalism class used to be trained to do this sort of thing, to include arguing the various viewpoints with some semblance of expertise. The fairness doctrine MADE media outlets provide equal time for opposing views. Now they're just all thrown out there, with no one thinking about, chewing over, or digesting the stew. It's just a bunch of monkeys tossing fudge cakes back and forth, led by folks like the kind people at Breitbart (aka "Bitchhard").

(P.S. Is "Pungency" a ref to "Tangency?")

Pungency is what OHT calls the Pundit's Forum, our own Tangency.

Quote from: CRKrueger;939629Pungency is what OHT calls the Pundit's Forum, our own Tangency.

Ha! Apt.

Quote from: Spinachcat;939598We are all going to get our own personal Safe Space soon enough.

It's called a coffin.

Can't argue with that, but I'd like to put it in my sig on TBP:D!

Quote from: Tristram Evans;939602I'm not completely against that. For example, I think that waging a war on creators dead for over a century because they hold views that would not be politically correct in modern society is pointless virtue signaling. And if the creation is actually separate, then I don't generally see a creator having different political views as having much meaning. But directly supporting a modern racist whose product intentionally and blatantly pushes and romanticizes racist theories crosses the line into personal responsibility. And if the work itself was actually a "work of art" that had some level of value separate from its moral failings, that would also be something worth making an argument for, but everything I've seen regarding MYFAROG suggests its anything but.

"Personal responsibility because you bought a game out of curiosity" is a statement best read with the booming voice of a people's prosecutor.

Also, purchasing someone's game doesn't mean you support him, her or the views the book might be defending;).

First off, welcome!

Quote from: Bluddworth;939551Not to makes this solely a sales pitch for MYFAROG, but if you are looking for a new game....  REH's Conan RPG is exceptional in every way.

Secondly, uhh... no it's not.  It's story game bordgamey crap that parades itself as the ultimate REH RPG when in actuality its driving mechanics are contrary to REH's worldview.  Yeah they've got REH scholars, and some great RPG writers whom I admire, and fantastic art, but Modiphius is using the IP to promote their cheesy narrative house system rather than crafting a system to fit the literature.  It's a square peg for a round hole...  IMHO anyway.  But I've already argued that point to death elsewhere.

I don't know what MYFROG or whatever is, nor do I condone any archaic notions about cultural or genetic superiority, but I have to admit that social-Darwinist themes of conflict between ethnicity, religion, and culture are a major component of REH's Hyborian age.  I think those make fine themes for gaming in a fantasy setting, especially if you want to relive the delusions of 1932 as well as made up antediluvian history, even if those themes are dangerously inappropriate (and flat out wrong) in the real world.

Quote from: AsenRG;939678"Personal responsibility because you bought a game out of curiosity" is a statement best read with the booming voice of a people's prosecutor.

I believe the story was "some people said the game was racist, so I decided to get it"

QuoteAlso, purchasing someone's game doesn't mean you support him, her or the views the book might be defending

doesn't it literally mean that?

Quote from: Tristram Evans;939689...

doesn't it literally mean that?

Really? WTF?

You are supporting them financially perhaps. But buying a game and even playing it does not mean you support IRL views of anyone really. For example, in supers games there can be tons of collateral damage, yet it hardly comes up as problematic. Wars have costs on both sides - see the "1 million dead, never forget" internet meme. Playing Star Wars means you support genocide? Mass murder? Slavery? This goes back to the controversy of the Hentai Rape game. So, if I buy it I support rape? Or maybe specifically tentacled monster rape?

This creates the same bullshit elitist attitude where the regressives get to decide who is in the "cool kids" club and who is not. It's bigoted faux-intellectualism at its worse.

"Because I'm so enlightened, and I am pure, and I only write/design games with the kindest of intentions, I'm qualified to judge the intentions YAY even the character of those whom I judge. Let me help you decide what good people to support."

How do we know this ding dong is really a white supremacist? Because he pontificates on the internet? How do we know the Pundit is a conservative rabble-rouser who talks like Bill "The Butcher" Cutter? How do we know if Donald Trump really wants to be president? Because they say so? None of these people could be playing a part in the stage of life? Impossible. No one dramatizes their public interactions in an attempt to garner attention. Of course, you are the genius who can parse all true intentions by reading internet fora.

In summary, NO it doesn't mean you support the authors opinion/views/ideals. You can read Mein Kompf with an academic distance and not buy into ANY of the ideals espoused within. We have brains. We have the ability to think. To reason. To determine.

If you read MyFarog and come away thinking "wow, it's OK to be racially superior. I AM better than everyone because I'm white." it has fuck all to do with the setting. You are fucking racist. A goddamn RPG has nothing to do with it.

Quote from: trechriron;939693Really? WTF?

You are supporting them financially perhaps.

Yes, that's exactly what I meant

*still sheltering my Maztica .pdfs*

Anyway, my thoughts on "villainous content" and sapient friction... Kinda hard to be a hero in a world of only protagonists.

Quote from: Tristram Evans;939689I believe the story was "some people said the game was racist, so I decided to get it"



doesn't it literally mean that?

A mind without curiosity is a stone by another name.

When one person claims something should be banned based on one of the most frivolous charges in our modern era, the charge of racism, it makes me curious to see and judge for myself.  To do otherwise is closed minded and really quite ignorant.  

Upon reviewing the game and even playing it with a dedicated community of players, I have found no such racism in the game or certainly not in the players of it.  

I once described the differences of race in MYFAROG like the differences between an elf and a human in any fantasy RPG.  They elf is almost always better with long bows, and has night vision, so would we declare that it is racist against humans who do not have those advantages?  

The other attack on MYFAROG is that it is incredibly mysoginistic, based primarily on the fact that female characters get a -2 to their initial strength roll, and a +1 to charisma.  Oh noooos....  Hey geniuses, women have up to 40% less upper body strength based on numerous scientific studies and medical journals.  This of course allows for the exception to the rule, but to the SJW snowflakes, well let's not let facts get in the way of their path to their safe space.  

The same people have tried to tarnish or even ban discussing writers like Robert E Howard and HP Lovecraft.

Quote from: Bluddworth;939877A mind without curiosity is a stone by another name.

When one person claims something should be banned based on one of the most frivolous charges in our modern era, the charge of racism, it makes me curious to see and judge for myself.  To do otherwise is closed minded and really quite ignorant.  

I don't dispute that, and I'm against "banning", but 5 minutes on google confirms directly that the game was written by a white supremacist and specifically contains those ideals.

QuoteUpon reviewing the game and even playing it with a dedicated community of players, I have found no such racism in the game or certainly not in the players of it.

Colour me incredulous. I've seen the game's writeups on the blatant proxies for Jews, Africans and Arabs, and the role they play within the context of the gameworld.

QuoteI once described the differences of race in MYFAROG like the differences between an elf and a human in any fantasy RPG.  They elf is almost always better with long bows, and has night vision, so would we declare that it is racist against humans who do not have those advantages?

Elves are fantasies and they don't directly correlate to any real world race. Just as when I hate it when regressives go on about orcs or drows representing minorities, MYFAROG presents the flip side of the problem of confusing the real world with fantasy. Having a fantastical made up race that is inherently evil is fine, presenting a real world race as evil within the context of a fantasy is pushing the boundaries of taste and any suspicions that it might be an innocent "mistake" go out the window with any knowledge of the author and his views. VV is a racist who specifically created a fantasy context that justifies that racism.

QuoteThe other attack on MYFAROG is that it is incredibly mysoginistic, based primarily on the fact that female characters get a -2 to their initial strength roll, and a +1 to charisma.  Oh noooos....  Hey geniuses, women have up to 40% less upper body strength based on numerous scientific studies and medical journals.

I was done with the game when it came to racism, I didn't really bother looking into whether or not it was misogynistic, but honestly? That sort of stuff got debunked by the gaming community 30 years ago when people proposed similar ability adjustments for D&D. It just makes the game sound juvenile.

QuoteThe same people have tried to tarnish or even ban discussing writers like Robert E Howard and HP Lovecraft.

There's two huge differences there....those are both dead people who lived a century ago at a time when society had different views. Lovecraft was a racist. But the racism in his stories is incidental, generally besides the point of the narratives, and buying his books nowadays doesn't support racism, and an intelligent discerning reader is quite capable of looking at those elements in his stories, dismissing them for the ignorance they represent, and still enjoying the other aspects of the story. And secondly, Lovecraft and Howard created works of art, and art has a value outside of temporal politics and issues. MYFAROG is not a work of art, and I have yet to even see any indication that its even a good game.

Quote from: Madprofessor;939686First off, welcome!



Secondly, uhh... no it's not.  It's story game bordgamey crap that parades itself as the ultimate REH RPG when in actuality its driving mechanics are contrary to REH's worldview.  Yeah they've got REH scholars, and some great RPG writers whom I admire, and fantastic art, but Modiphius is using the IP to promote their cheesy narrative house system rather than crafting a system to fit the literature.  It's a square peg for a round hole...  IMHO anyway.  But I've already argued that point to death elsewhere.

Linkage? First I've really hear of the game and would like to know more, good and bad. So any rants or reviews you can point me towards would be appreciated.

Quote from: Tristram Evans;939899Linkage? First I've really hear of the game and would like to know more, good and bad. So any rants or reviews you can point me towards would be appreciated.

One might say that it was a substantial topic of discussion around here about a year ago.  Here are links to the two main threads about it:

New Conan game on KS
Conan 2d20 RPG: Questions for Jason Durall

CRK also did a playtest review of the Kickstarter demo materials:

Playtest: Conan 2d20 - To Race the Thunder

Quote from: Madprofessor;939686First off, welcome!



Secondly, uhh... no it's not.  It's story game bordgamey crap that parades itself as the ultimate REH RPG when in actuality its driving mechanics are contrary to REH's worldview.  Yeah they've got REH scholars, and some great RPG writers whom I admire, and fantastic art, but Modiphius is using the IP to promote their cheesy narrative house system rather than crafting a system to fit the literature.  It's a square peg for a round hole...  IMHO anyway.  But I've already argued that point to death elsewhere.

I don't know what MYFROG or whatever is, nor do I condone any archaic notions about cultural or genetic superiority, but I have to admit that social-Darwinist themes of conflict between ethnicity, religion, and culture are a major component of REH's Hyborian age.  I think those make fine themes for gaming in a fantasy setting, especially if you want to relive the delusions of 1932 as well as made up antediluvian history, even if those themes are dangerously inappropriate (and flat out wrong) in the real world.

If ypu replace "real" with "modern" I'm with you. It's rediculous to hold past cultures to our current ethical views.