Quote from: Bluddworth;946700And so it begins....  not so much in the OP, but in the comments that follow you can see the general trend.  http://massivelyop.com/2017/02/19/the-daily-grind-what-do-you-think-about-slavery-as-a-concept-in-mmorpgs/

Buck up buttercup. I think you're a POS based on this very thread but you're not gone yet. So chill and discuss what you prefer until you prov\\\\\\

Quote from: Marleycat;946967Buck up buttercup. I think you're a POS based on this very thread but you're not gone yet. So chill and discuss what you prefer until you prov\\\\\\

Name calling is sometimes the first refuge, and often the only refuge for someone who has no ideas of their own.  Maybe if you grow up a bit you can join in an adult conversation.

{Insert Popcorn gif of choice.}

Quote from: Marleycat;946967Buck up buttercup. I think you're a POS based on this very thread but you're not gone yet. So chill and discuss what you prefer until you prov\\\\\\

Somehow, I doubt he's a Product of Sums;).

Couple of points I noticed reading through this thread. Much hay was made over HP Lovecraft's racism, which was pretty prevalent at the time. There is no real disputing this, but it stemmed from a long list of phobias which while repugnant in the case of his overt racism, they actually went along with his xenophobia, technophobia, agoraphobia, and a whole host of other issues. While I don't excuse racism in modern authors and only tolerate it in those from earlier times, it was his list of phobias that truly informed his work. His existential dread of the "other" is largely what drove his fiction and made him one of the fathers of modern horror and science fiction.
In addition to that, it was stated that the moral panic of the D&D era was largely ineffectual in that it didn't stop major retailers from carrying games, etc. That wasn't entirely true, at least not where I live. At the time here, the only retailer carrying D&D was a place known as Hobby Lobby (yes the same one notable for the issues regarding insurance and birth control), as soon as the panic began and especially after the Sean Sellers link to D&D, no major . retailer carried RPG's. Luckily about that time, some small flgs opened to fill the void. Would that have not been the case, may have been years hence till I saw an RPG. My point is, it might be a bit dangerous to assume all of this hullaballoo amounts to nothing, it certainly did in my world.

I think the phobia that most informs Lovecraft's writing much more than his racism is his apparent fear and even disgust of sex. His failed marriage reflects this. Also compare his writing to those of his peers R.E.H. (lustful, powerful women) and Clark Ashton Smith (perverse and lustful with a strong sense of humour and irony).

Quote from: Bluddworth;946995Name calling is sometimes the first refuge, and often the only refuge for someone who has no ideas of their own.  Maybe if you grow up a bit you can join in an adult conversation.

I'm older then I prefer and I think you're a POS. Clear enough? It isn't name calling when you call a spade a spade. No offense sir but truth will not be hidden. It's okay that I don't buy your line it how the world works and makes things interesting.

Okay what is POS and what in the hell are you talking about Marleycat?

Quote from: Snowman0147;947423Okay what is POS and what in the hell are you talking about Marleycat?

POS=piece of shit. I don't like him. Deal with it. He plays a horrible game and tries to convince the ignorant that it's fine. I disagree and don't respect his point of view. Is that straightforward and clear enough? He won't be banned unless he pushes his racist crap but that doesn't mean I cannot dislike him.

Quote from: Voros;947342I think the phobia that most informs Lovecraft's writing much more than his racism is his apparent fear and even disgust of sex. His failed marriage reflects this. Also compare his writing to those of his peers R.E.H. (lustful, powerful women) and Clark Ashton Smith (perverse and lustful with a strong sense of humour and irony).

His phobia of sex is admittedly apparent enough, but it doesn't mean his racism wasn't influential for his works, too.

Quote from: Voros;947342I think the phobia that most informs Lovecraft's writing much more than his racism is his apparent fear and even disgust of sex. His failed marriage reflects this. Also compare his writing to those of his peers R.E.H. (lustful, powerful women) and Clark Ashton Smith (perverse and lustful with a strong sense of humour and irony).

Oh absolutely, though I hesitated to call it misogyny, it was more a gynophobia...in any case he was such a mixed bag of psychosis, that it is difficult to use him as a glaring example of an otherwise run of the mill racist, especially as it relates to his art.

Quote from: shuddemell;947434Oh absolutely, though I hesitated to call it misogyny, it was more a gynophobia...in any case he was such a mixed bag of psychosis, that it is difficult to use him as a glaring example of an otherwise run of the mill racist, especially as it relates to his art.

But we're not using him as an example of run of the mill racists, just of a person with views that would be unpopular today, who channeled those views into his art. That might be racism, his fear of sex, or any of his other psychosis that we have learned better how to treat:).

Admittedly, I don't really rate HPL highly, so it's arguable whether those things helped or hindered his work, but we can take it as a given that they did help shaping it;).

Quote from: AsenRG;947491But we're not using him as an example of run of the mill racists, just of a person with views that would be unpopular today, who channeled those views into his art. That might be racism, his fear of sex, or any of his other psychosis that we have learned better how to treat:).

Admittedly, I don't really rate HPL highly, so it's arguable whether those things helped or hindered his work, but we can take it as a given that they did help shaping it;).

Actually what was being done is saying he is worthy despite his racism, and I am making the suggestion in his very specific case that it wasn't in spite of, but partially because of his racism. It's obviously a rare case, and doesn't really apply to VV, but it seemed a distinction worth pointing out to me.

I certainly know what you mean shuddemell, I would say for instance at his best Mailer's greatest writing is about him wrestling with his machoism or Celine's best writing is part of his misanthropy.

But for me the best of Lovecraft is not The Shadows Over Innsmouth or The Dunwich Horror but The Shadow Out of Time and Mountains of Madness, stories where his racism is not only not significant but perhaps even refuted to a degree. The ending of Innsmouth has always struck me as oddly ecstatic though, which adds an interesting perhaps subconscious element to its theme of miscegnation.

Quote from: shuddemell;947654Actually what was being done is saying he is worthy despite his racism, and I am making the suggestion in his very specific case that it wasn't in spite of, but partially because of his racism. It's obviously a rare case, and doesn't really apply to VV, but it seemed a distinction worth pointing out to me.

Our flaws always push us just as much as our virtues. That's such a basic truth I don't think it's even worth debating whether it's possible:).

My point was that in HPL's case, he might have been a better writer if he was devoid of racism;).